Arghhh! I'm assuming that was a TiC reply. ;o) I've actually done some experimenting with loose controls in place using Superjive & have found it helpful in stimulating the formation of new roots, but of no use for anything, including as a 'tonic', beyond that singular saving grace. As always, YMMV. Something I wrote about VF-11: I'll gently disagree with the VF-11 recommendation on this basis: The guaranteed analysis of the primary macro-nutrients (NPK) in Eleanor's is: 0.15 - 0.85 - 0.55 This is less than 1% of ANY of the majors. 1/8 of 1% N, 7/8 of 1% P, 1/2 of 1% K. This is EXTREMELY low in fertility. Since I cannot find the rest of the analysis, I'm going to guess the rest of the nutrients are probably nonexistent, or nearly so. I haven't used this potion (VF-11), but then, you don't need to ride the bus to know what makes the wheels go round & round. Forgive me for being somewhat skeptical or even cynical, but when vague claims are made like: "... and mildew is eliminated because VF-11 changes the pH and creates a condition where mildew can not grow. Once again, isn't it amazing?" I wonder why there isn't something specific in the claim. Changes the pH of what? Soil? Cellular pH? Leaf surface pH - for how long? Hmmm I also wonder at: "VF-11 builds so much strength and health that plant cells 'harden' and 'seal in' the amino acids which aphids feed on. You have merely eliminated their food supply. And you have done it without the use of poisonous systemic or pesticides. Pretty nice...huh?" Don't aphids feed on sap. How does this product make the sap unavailable to aphids? Does it somehow make cells so hard that they cannot be penetrated and dry up all the intra-cellular plant water/sap? Should I/we be saying GMAB here? There's more, but you get the drift. I wouldn't say that this product has no benefit, as it may very well have some, but I am of the general feeling there is almost surely no panacean value to products like Superthrive or this elixir, and it's a good bet it's not the magic potion some may think it to be. I don't trust advertising that is known to be false and this alone is enough to fuel the skepticism in me. One thing additional: The claim that "you cannot overdo", means there could only be extremely minute (almost immeasurable or nonexistent) amounts of any micro-nutrients in it because micro-nutrient overdose produces toxicity at very low levels and over-doing would reveal readily visible symptoms quickly. Like I said, I wouldn't argue that it has no value, but I do know that I would invest in a good, known source of micro-nutrients and an appropriate fertilizer before I'd trust plant vitality to a product labeled with so many unsubstantiated claims. Al

I believe I am detecting (at best) some "questionable cause" or "post hoc" reasoning in Tina's post. That she reports her plants are larger (than a control group?) than expected is not necessarily indication that the reason is attributable to ZeoPro. In other words, because A is associated with B, we cannot unequivocally say that A is the cause of B (questionable cause). Similarly, because B follows A (first I used a product, then my plants got bigger), we cannot attribute the cause of B to A (post hoc). This kind of reasoning is very prevalent on these forums. I'll continue to remain rather skeptical of the somewhat expansive claims set forth in the link Tina provided. While the product may well have merit, I wouldn't say the link provided leads to any to "Advanced Soil Science". It is a commercial by folks selling a product. If the claims on a bottle of Superthrive were true, it would seem that all we need do is ad a drop or two to irrigation water & worry about having a machete on hand to clear a room to room path through the vegetation. Forgive me Tina - my intent is not to discredit you, but to note that the likelihood of this product being as beneficial as touted are low. This is not to say it may not have benefit at all. As noted on another forum, a recent conversation with a scientifically minded man who did his Master's thesis on "Moisture Relationships and Irrigation of Container-Grown Nursery Stock" (and who has used ZeoPro) shows that he has abandoned it's use, citing that "I didn't see results that made feel I can't do without this (ZeoPro). This man has a national following for his plant and soil expertise. For any reading this post: By all means, try it & see what you think, but don't expect miracles or even plants trebled in size. Though the previous poster's intent was not to "hype it up", I believe there is more than a little hype involved. Remember please - it's only one man's opinion you just read, but I'll suffer any fallout from it. Al

Hi Laura it's nice talking to you to . It's been a few weeks .I was going to in a couple of weeks try to find your old post , I wanted to see how your grapefruit tree was doing . I hope you are having a great summer . The weather is a bit wacky here one day 90 and the next 70 , but not to bad not to much rain . Laura how did the roots look when you repotted . It may take a little time for your tree to adjust to the new mix . I find it funny with all the heat and rain you have had that your tree hasn't flushed out majorly , any time the temperature reach's 90 here my trees will usually start to show some kind of new growth. One of these days I am going to try dyna grow but I have been so successful with MG it's hard to change .I have never used sea kelp . I have bug's in my trees to but I try to keep them in check by washing the heck out of them . I am sure I have the cleanest trees in North America . Supposed to be a beautiful weekend here 90 degrees and sunny . Laura you should join us in the bug posting by Maggy what a truly terrific person she is . Mike and Cory and Steve also spend alot of time there , these guys are all fantastic and very knowledgeable and fun . They are all good friends . I hope you have a great weekend Laura. , so nice talking to you. Brian

I agree about a curving cut from the stairs to the door, and starting small. But also, since you have the boulders to the right of the stairs, I would try to plan for some future expansion of the garden area over to those right-hand boulders or a bit beyond, and have a curving path of flagstone or some pavers that naturalize with the rocks that are already there, going from the stairs to the door, which would make it easier to walk to, etc. and also cut down on grass mowing there (it looks like it might be a little difficult to mow there anyway). Then you could add a (very) small tree in the area to the right near the large boulders to balance the high deck. Something like a laburnum for some spring flowers, or maybe a Japanese maple. A good nursery will have suggestions. There are many kinds of ferns as well as some of the plants that have already been suggested here. I think the area has great potential, and I would use restraint (i.e. no white crushed stone or pink plastic flamingos! :D)