@judijunebugarizonazn8

I feel that I've informed people enough about how to get money back from this particular issue and I hope that in the future that this level of money won't be absconded with so easily in the rose industry. I frequent small business, family owned operations, and the like in the United Kingdom. My particular interest in roses was founded on David Austin and will continue. I have no problem with supporting people starting out in business, what I can't absolve is people not being forthright with the customer base. I hope they get it together for the sake of the 3 children. (I have sympathy for any child in this situation). Outside that I have no sympathy for the adults who haven't owned the mess they made from the start of the problem and pretending everything was fine. Had they made just one different decision they would be in a much better position and that I hope they've at least learned from. Time will tell I suppose.

Speaking of scams, has anyone got their exclusive roses from Grace Rose Farm yet ? It’s been almost a year , promise after promise and the runs around from them and still no roses

Check the Grace thread. And I've not received my exclusive Ashley rose, but I haven't waited as long as you, though too long for me. Diane

It’s been nothing but excuse after excuse. I don’t think I will ever see those roses. At this point I just want my money back.

Good luck getting your money back! They’re not processing any and if you try to do a chargeback through your credit card they’re fighting to not allow it to process through. Total scammers!

Any news from Garden Roses LLT,

Did they ship any roses to anyone this sprong 2024 ever?

I see no updates on their facebook since April 11. He has no products for sale on their website, no roses, No alternatives soecifified to sell in their website, no candles, just tags & T-shirts.

i’d like to know the names of the 200 roses alternatives for sale in this June 2024-Nate says on his website he’d have 200 roses to sell in June.

No word/UPDATES from him in media for 3 weeks.

Many people on Rose Vendor Feedback are saying their chargebacks have been reversed. GRLLC has been arguing with credit companies that the orders are being sent, the CC companies are believing them, so the conditional credit the customers were issued is being taken back. Ugh.

Someone from Rose Geeks just posted this:

GRLLC Refunds

I am sharing this spreadsheet that was created as a result of a discussion we had in the GRLLC chat recently. The intention is to use this to track the status of GRLLC refunds so that as a community we have a clearer picture of how many people are still owed money.

I am only posting this on the main page so that people can find the link more easily if they need it (so they aren’t having to scroll back through the entire chat thread each time to find it). If you are not comfortable sharing this type of information, there is no pressure to do so.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--wxUMMCIKhyxhQV3hLMaXZO-XOPE3_SeeRi3L78vBQ/edit?usp=sharing

Kitty, I'd like to correct the record that when Grace Rose Farm delays or even CANCELS your rose they do not offer refunds unless your rose ordered in early 2023 is now delayed another year until 2025. In 2024 they will give you back your money after holding onto it for a year, gaining interest. Otherwise you have to fight for it over many months. They purposely delayed everyone's Fall 2023 arrival order to Spring 2024. I know someone waiting from January 2023 for $2,000 worth of roses & GRF refuses to refund, and ignoring them.

i chose Fall delivery which I had to fight for then they sent a month after frost. They canceled roses on me & only offered gift cards. The subsitute for Spring shown here could not be the canceled rose, I had to choose another - bait & switch. Multiple back & forth with CS they refuse to refund for their error.
Eventually got refund after going to someone who is no longer with company.

I see an update on Nate’s Facebook…

56 minutes ago……

He shows a video of roses growing in his green house, and a video of all of the roses growing on both sides. Growing our rose orders over spring-summer it appears. Wonder if those are the roses ”we ordered?”

I ordered The Prince & WS2000. Fall was his new delivery time. I will wait & see if he shiips them to me.,,

Blessings to all of us rose gardeners!

Are those his roses or somebody else's rose farm? Why would anyone trust this outfit? Diane

Many of those look like new cuttings

Why would a rose grower not have them in alphabetical order or at least in groups of variety?

Not to mention that looks like the first bloom on a Seedling, not a cutting of The  Fairy.  Wasn't he experimenting with breeding?

Looks sketch.

Diane,

UPDATE MAY 2023:

Rose Geek visited his farm , showing a you tube video of his green house & rose farm. His “new photos ,” of his green house, new roses being propagated in the green house this spring 2023, & farm are his REAL rental farm property. i recognize it and he is prpogating The Fairy. I have seen his “The Fairy,” in a few photos of his and videos &I watched all his videos and am now viewing his facebook.

He just sent an email to customers today explaining propogation he started in spring and that ”our orders will be ready summer for colder climates and fall for warmer climates.” . He also states to be selling: rose jam, cards, soaps, chocolates. Additionally he says 200 roses are available for Mothers Day , as replacements.

I’d ordered The Prince & WS2000 so still hopeful I may receive those roses in summer.

Excerpts from his email ….

BTW, Nate started a small business in 1/2 an acre. I see he had a small crop in one green house. I have seen other nurseries stsrt this small. He is in his first year.

Heirloom Roses own 25 acres last update on their website. They have been around forva few decades.

Grace Rose Farm owns 50 acres in her 3 years of selling tose bushes.

Since Nate has a sm starter farm, maybe he can recover from his intial crop failure., He has one green house & I watched the video of his starter cuttings. I hope they grow well!

The rose jam looks yummy! My daughter sent me rose tea! Yum! I would love to learn to vook w/ roses like I saw on a you tube video once. The lady put roses in rice, bread bread, and sll types of cooking entrees! Yum!

@KittyNYz6. The photos/video on GRLLC’s facebook page are all for show as GRLLC is fighting chargebacks. If you know anything about propagating roses, everything the OP has written in the attached screenshot is true. The cuttings are also too tall to be successful. Good luck getting your roses. I'm sure you will get another "crop failure" email in a few months time. And when you ask for a refund then, don't fall for their offer to refund you via PayPal Goods & Services (if you've paid by credit card). Scammers are going to continue to scam.

@KittyNYz6. Also, Rose Geek's youtube video is from November 2023, before the scam was exposed. Rose Geek no longer endorses them. She emailed GRLLC for a refund and never heard back. You would think that Nate & Tess would have shown Rose Geek some preference...

BTW Rosegal - (Susan Searles in that picture was one of his biggest cheerleaders when this all started so the fact she is now questioning him means that reality is starting to set in on some of the more vocal ones that were supporting him.) She now looks like the fool that I told her she was at the time.

@EnglishRoseBud, I hoped for the best and they have disappointed me. I am sorry that you feel its necessary to be so unkind towards me.

@The Rose Geek - I wasn't implying anything bad about you in that statement below - that was for the person listed in the picture. Sorry if wasn't clear, I will clarify that below and I will say I'm sorry if you thought I meant you. <3

This thread is very sad. I haven't ordered any plants from Garden Roses, but I feel for those who paid a lot of money and haven't gotten any plants yet. I wasn't aware of the owners' past frauds and struggles with mental illness until this thread. I hope that they are really trying to make things right and deliver what they promised. Of course, hope is one thing, and reality is quite another. It looks like there is real enthusiasm behind this project, but I fear that they bit off far more than they could chew. I don't just mean shipping orders; I mean the difficulties of rose propagation.

Pennsylvania is home to a major rose grower - Star Roses and Plants - formerly Conard-Pyle. But I think they only grow a few test plants in the Pennsylvania location anymore. Most or all of the real growing is done at faraway, sunnier locations. (I think there are good reasons for this.)

About the spotted lanternfly thing: I live in the infested quarantine zone - as do about 1/4 of the people in the United States. (Check this map.) It is possible for growers in these states to ship out plants legally - but they have to comply with permit laws in both their state, and any state that they ship to.

A bit of hope ... The lanternflies hit hard in this area about 5 years ago. In the fall of 2019(?), they were seemingly everywhere, and you could find their eggs on all kinds of hard surfaces. But their numbers seem to have dropped significantly since then. I saw only a few nymphs and a few adults last year.

I think the reduction is due to a combination of human efforts to trap and kill them, eliminating invasive tree of heaven that is their best host plant, plus the local wildlife adjusting to them and eating a few. Lanternflies are just one species of planthoppers - many of which are native to the USA - so it's likely that native wildlife can eat them in the future. There's a long list of quarantines present in the USA, and the spotted lanternfly is just one. So while people should certainly know about these bugs, they don't need to stay awake at night worrying over them. (OK, maybe farmers can stay awake worrying - but they were probably doing that anyway.)

@KittyNYz6

Kitty I am glad there are kind people in the world like you, but I have asked for a refund and have been ignored. I have not been offered chocolates, jam, candles or any other replacement for my money yet. As a matter of fact I have not heard back AT ALL

Got my chargeback finalized last week.

i had filed for it immediately after it became clear that there was going to be no roses, and im glad i did it then

Dianela,

I understand how you feel. I have asked about May/June deliver my roses or candles , chocolates, alternatives- I emailed twice in a 2 week period, finally received a response which vaguely said ”no promises dates….& no specific alternative products…..” I dont really yet know about if there will be real alternatives or what? This is not standard business. I sure hope they come through with something soon. Actually Actually, I think I’d like rose jam, a candle, chocolates and one rose, Ha Ha! Jam sounds yummy!

Were the details of this past week’s visit to GRLLC by Pennsylvania State Police shared here? I’m sorry if this is redundent. I wasn‘t involved with the police investigation but I did receive an update from a friend. I had to step back from this situation for a few reasons however I was given this information concerning this week’s visit. I provided all of my documentation to others who followed through with filing charges.

Here is my update: The officer just called me back and said when they visited, they saw approximately 1500 cuttings that are approximately 6-12" high. He described the greenhouse as a small greenhouse that could fit possibly 2 vehicles inside. There was no crop insurance and no collateral. Evidently, they did not know they needed crop insurance and have just now figured out how to treat the fungus gnats since losing the crop over the winter. (Which the officer even said, how do you become the president of the rose society but not know how to treat for a common pest?) He noted they were driving what appeared to be brand-new (or newer) vehicles, using new equipment/electronics/laptops/gadgets, etc. They were both present when officers arrived (the 2 farm hands were not there today) and Nate essentially volunteered that they've spent all the money. He verified almost all of your findings, down to paying off the money he owed earlier this year and the LVRS misuse of funds. He said that many of the photos of any mature flowers that have been shared by them appear questionable to him or came from other places on the internet and do not represent what he saw in person. He said they said they have shipped out a couple dozen roses in all to customers.

Unfortunately in order to progress this to the next step, they will need a victim from PA to come forward so that he can continue to pursue this since this is the PA state police. He is going to continue coordinating with other agencies to see if any new complaints have come in yet, but basically, this is as far as I can take it because I am not a resident of PA. So if you know of anyone in PA who would want the officer's contact information, please let me know and I will send it to you!

Wow I'm sad for everybody that the worst fears are coming true!

Thanks for the report Janet!

It is an interesting dilema dealing with fungus knats. I have gardened roses for 37 years. Only over this last winter did I have fungus knats first time. It’s caused by soil being indoors or a green house & too much moisture. I had roses growing in my kitchen. After research ai am doing better w/ my roses that were indoors. Humidity adds to the fungus issue and soil not drying out enough in green houses or indoors. . The minute the roses are outside, wind and sun dry soil, then knats go away mostly.. Dealing with any fungus and organics is tough. I spoke with GRLLC & they are required to be organic while leasing The Seed Farm land. Nate is in first year of production so he may have many surprise encounters. It is more difficult to rid pests w/ organics, too. I hope his crop makes it this summer.

Sadly, i never got my money back from them and my credit union has refused a chargeback because of the time frame even though i explained it was a pre-order. No more naïveté in my rose-buying endeavors.

Sadly these fraudsters are going to get away with it unless more people step up and file police reports, especially someone in the state of PA..

@EnglishRoseBud sadly you’re likely correct. This is the perfect opportunity for people looking for easy money to exploit. Was it ever an actual business venture that failed due to inexperience and hubris or was it a calculated scam from day one? My opinion doesn’t matter. Only GRLLC knows the answer to that question.

Kitty, I don't know if you are on happy pills (j/k) but you are like the most optimistic person (excited for rose jam, candles, chocolate).

I thought someone in the state of PA did step up, but all GRLLC has to do is refund the person pressing charges and they are no longer a victim. Reminds me of OneLove refunding people in Texas while ghosting those from other states - been over 2 years so it's safe to say OneLove/Chamblees has no intent to refund/deliver. On the optimistic side, someone I know who did not initiate a chargeback recently got a $3,000 refund check from GRLLC. I've not heard of these checks bouncing yet. Maybe GRLLC is fighting chargebacks to avoid the fees, since they have brought it up. While some believe they deserve the fee, GRLLC may feel with a straight refund, nothing gained, nothing lost. Meanwhile the "other" company in the news has not given that same person a refund nor delivered roses and it's been well over a year.

@Janet Winkles

Could you post in Rose Vendor Feedback facebook group , if you have not already? Many of the folks there are still waiting for GRLLC plants, perhaps one of them lives in PA and will help. If you don’t use Facebook, may I post on your behalf?

Roses in Clay

More than a few people have reported that their chargebacks have been reversed, as GRLLC has been fighting them, and the Credit Card companies are siding with them. My chargeback was initially accepted by Citi several weeks ago, I was issued conditional credit, but has not been finalized. With GRLLC, it ain’t over until it is final!

To me it seems mistaken to make excuses for people who act dishonestly or badly. It's like sending out the message that it's okay to do wrong as long as you don't "get caught". And then to make matters even more twisted, people accuse you of "being judgemental" if you object to the bad behaviour! Trying to maintain basic standards of what kind of behaviour is right and what is wrong does NOT mean that one has to be vindictive, furious, full of hatred, desirous of casting others into the flames of hell, etc.

It isn't all that hard to be decent.

Quite frankly - They are figthing chargebacks by lying about sending products to these people. I know a few people who are still fighting to get the money they owe them back and its absolutely ridiculous at this point. He used six figures to pay off his past legal issues and that got him off probation. If this had all come out before he paid that he'd be sitting in prison where he belongs. There is no excuse for what they've done to anyone. She deserves to be sitting in prison as well and those poor children I feel very sorry for with parents like these.

@ bart bart - Did you ever see that Talladega Nights movie, where the main character asks his dad why he left his family, and why he sabotaged so many chances to make things right? His dad says something like, "I don't know what gene or bone people have inside that makes them act good... but I never had that." I say this not as an excuse, but just reflecting on how everyone has their own "thorn in the side ". It's unfortunate that nobody was there to rein this situation in before it grew to this size. I hope it can get resolved with some good for everyone here.

Oof. I do not understand the compulsion to play down, defend and make excuses for this level of negligence and dishonesty. People should absolutely give grace to others, we all make mistakes and bad choices, but at a certain threshold it morphs from giving grace into enabling ill intentions to affect others.

Candies, candles and rose jam, if they do actually exist and will be delivered, are absolutely not a valid replacement. They're short lived consumables that I'm no way are a fair replacement for plants that can be expected to last decades. Can't speak for everyone's financial situation but if I spent $200 or whatever on something I never received and couldn't get my money back, it would be a very tough pill for me to swallow, and I would be extremely bitter to see people acting like it's no big deal.

Yeah, Steve, I think you must be right (I never saw that movie, however). Some people just don't seem to have that "gene or bone" that makes them act ethically. We all do indeed have a "thorn in the side", but that one is a very ugly one. I can't help seeing it that way-I know a lot of really good, truly honest people whose "thorns" are so small and innocuous and understandable that you 'd need a metaphorical microscope to find them.

I'm betting that those who have not yet sought a refund, will not get anything - no candles, no roses, no money - nothing. At this point, I think it's naive to think that miracle is going to happen. Those people clearly are far from "well intentioned".

@BenT I posted all of this in the vendor site a few days ago. I was banned from Rose Geeks where I made the initial disclosure of my findings on GRLLC so the vendor site and here are really the only places I can post. I posted to ask if anyone in Pennsylvania is willing to step up and join the pirsuit of charges with the Pennsylvania State Police. The investigation is supposed to ramp up this week and I was told that they are securing legal representation. If the pattern of past cases continues they will claim dual personality and bipolar disorder in order to receive probation, if a case can even be brought. I’ve seen many people comment that they’ve simply given up hope of receiving refunds which was probably what Nate and Tess hoped would happen. We will never know the true amount of money they made from this scam, especially since they used multiple platforms. They used the scammed presale money to pay the LVRS what theyd stolen from them and to pay court costs from the identity theft case which were delinquent. He faced probation revocation and he paid those amounts off in January of this year and was immediately released from probation that was supposed to end in 2022. There’s a lot more to this however thats enough to say this was a calculated scam. When confronted with these facts by the investgating officer Nate admitted what was first posted before I was booted from Rose Geeks was all true. Not that I just had to be right but it sure feels good to know that I wasnt out in left field making things up. I just feel awful for people who won’t receive refunds and areout hundreds or thousands of dollars. I was owed $240 and I received it although I’ll be watching for the next year to make sure they don’t take it back. Also, I cancelled my credit card and received a new one to prevent future theft as they have been convicted of identity theft in the amount of $160,000 and those charges aren’t old. What a tangled web!

Hmmm…how are they making rose jam without any roses? For all we know they could be making spotted lanternfly jam! Eek! That’s about the only thing we know they have in abundance, we’ve been shown the maps.

Janet,

Thanks for all your efforts and updates, much appreciated.

@janetwinkles Janet, I do so wish you wouldnt say you were banned from Rose Geeks and infer that it was because you posted about Graden Roses LLC. You are fully aware that is not why we removed you. 😀

We wanted you to post and reviewed and approved your post with the caveat that you post while we were awake to moderate the comments. You agreed to the time requested for the following day. (We didnt want you to receive heat for your post from the members).

You chose instead to post after the Admin team went to sleep. To make matters worse, you left the group after posting and receiving the negative feedback from members.

Thank you not talking negatively about Rose Geeks. We really try out best to make it a nice group to support one another.

Sending wishes for early blooms 🥰

Sandy, I only hay $20 out there and it is more of a hassel to try and get it back at this late date It had become more of an experimemt to see what happens and I expect nothing at this point but I dont believe that I am uninformed or not well intentioned. I am just not in that deep to care.

Ben, they are buying their jam from Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. She has a new business selling upscale products no one wants. Diane

@TheRoseGeek All I said, literally, was that ”I was banned from Rose Geeks where I made the initial disclosure of my findings on GRLLC so the vendor site and here are really the only places I can post” and “When confronted with these facts by the investgating officer Nate admitted what was first posted before I was booted from Rose Geeks was all true”. I copied and pasted both references. I am fully aware of why I was banned and I told you then that I understood why I was booted. It was because I posted about GRLLC and acted stupidly out of fear. Is it that you want me to provide a full disclosure of the reasons I was removed in regard to my findings about GRLLC if I feel the need to mention it at all? I’m sorry that you read my comments as inferring anything about the fairness or unfairness of what happened. I took full responsibility for what I did and made a lengthy post about it on the vendor site and explained my actions and why I did what I did. I have no desire to return to the group or to change anyone’s mind about my actions. You own the group, you decide who you want or don’t want in it, and there’s no debate about that. The post I made in this forum here, today, was not meant to do anything but answer the othed poster’s question about posting in the vendor group, explaining that I’d already done that because I was booted from Rose Geeks and its the only place I can post anything. I guess in the future, if I feel the need to mention my removal from your group, I’ll fully disclose the circumstances and take accountability each time so that I don’t cast a negative light on your group, which is not my intention.

@Janet. 😀 No problem. i just dont want anyone to take it from your comment that we are unfriendly group or that we silence members. We just wanted to protect you as we anticipated that it was going to cause a little ruckus.

That would be nice that if you mentioned Rose Geeks, maybe just leave off that you arent a member anymore. 😀

You are a great researcher and so many have benefited from the information that you shared. thank you for all that you do 🥰

@EnglishRoseBud Also remember they set up a scholarship fund at Texas A & M and put $25,000 into a trust fund there. My belief is that they though it would give them more credibility and enable them to perpetrate further deceptive business practices. Interestingly, the columnest who wrote the article in the Lancasteronline.com forum concerning Nate’s attempt to start a company to manage the personal finances of elderly clients, Brett Hambright, is now the press secretary for the Pennsylvania Attorney General. I spoke with Brett twice in late February after learning that the district attorney and the judge in the identity theft case were made aware of a GoFundMe account Nate had set up asking for $5,000 in donations to start up this business and had called him into court. Nate is banned for life from handling the personal finances of anyone other than himself. GoFundMe returned the donations to the people who gave it and also banned Nate from creating any new GoFundMe accounts. In speaking with Brett as well as the columnist who took over Brett’s blog, there are several other scams Nate and Tess have been involved with. At no time in their adult lives have either of these people worked a regular 40 hour per week job. I have a lengthy timeline that documents other attempts to scam customers in niche industries. It was difficult for me to sit back and read online comments from people who don’t know any of this and are waiting for roses.

@EnglishRoseBud I left out the most important part of my post below. Lol, thats what I get for being a wordsmith. A comment I received from Brett Hambright during our second phone conversation was that Nate and Tess are extremely well known in the Pennsylvania area and in particular, in Allentown. Their check kiting schemes from 2010-2012 were sensationalized in the press and most local residents are aware of their criminal history and their character. So I would think that means there are a lot fewer local customers who haven’t received refunds as GRLLC seems to have refunded Pennsylvania residents to a great extent and most of their victims are in other states. Also, local rosarians would have steered clear of them to begin with. This had to have been calculated to avoid local charges from being pressed. Whatever their next niche industry is it will most likely involve out of state victims as their reputations locally are muddied. That’s also a plausible explaination as to why they haven’t attempted to secure honest work. They’d have to relocate to do so as background checks like the one I ran and which any perspective employer would run on them quickly results in their resumes being removed from consideration.

@Janet Winkles I have no doubt you've dug to the bottom of the well, I haven't spoken to you in a while but quite frankly anyone expecting to get anything from them by cheerleading them on deserve what they get. I was just looking at his instagram where he showed off his 800 US dollar parent plant order, the man clearly loves to show people he spends money and boast he does things. If more parent plants existed he would be showing them off and people woudln't have to keep asking him where the pictures are.. Ample evidence has been presented and they both deserve to rot in prison where they belong.

EnglishRoseBud, as the original poster, I request that anyone using this thread refrain from comments like you just made in your post above about such people deserving “to rot in prison”, etc. This thread is still here to record and keep us updated on this unfortunate business. All of us here believe in honesty and justice, but let’s leave vindictive comments out of the discussion. Thank you kindly.
Judi