Triclopyr production is rather low-key stuff, but it's very powerful in it's effectiveness. It mimics a natural auxin/hormone and signals a plant to start uncontrolled growth which busts cells and demands more out of a plant than it could hope to provide. It's basically oxamic acid (found in spinach in measurable quantity, fwiw) and catalysts mostly driven by (and consumed with) CO2...which, btw, are 2 of the main chemicals it breaks down into (oxamic acid/CO2)...along with a few other organic acids like TCP (in small amounts) and TMP (even smaller amounts, and not produced via water degradation). Now, TCP exposure has been linked to lower sperm counts in human males...but the TCP produced in this breakdown is extremely weak, a small amount, and rarely persistent...especially in water and moist soil (nearly non-existent in air). The continuing breakdown from Triclopyr to TCP/TMP compounds to CO2 and lesser organic acids (such as oxalic acid) is rather quick.. If it's applied properly (aka, not getting it all over you...because it's a mild skin irritant, too) it's not much of an issue...especially considering how extremely low it's toxicity is in the air. It nearly fully breaks down REALLY quickly in the presence of direct light (minutes to hours). The further breakdown of TCP/TMP mainly becomes CO2. Aside from the small amount of time the breakdown consists of TCP, there's no "red flags" in the production or degradation productions of Triclopyr. Even the low-sperm count alarms of TCP aren't much of an issue considering how little of it that is produced and that you're going to have be putting bare hands all over soil where Triclopyr has been recently applied in order to get it on you...unless you're improperly applying it and getting it all over you...which you'd know because it's a mild skin irritant because of the quick chemical reaction changes that occur once it's exposed to the environment (especially direct light or moisture).

Merrybookwoyrm (love the name) To be effective, glyphosate has to be applied to an actively growing plant with a reasonable amount of foliage. And it has to be applied with a spray that is heavy enough to wet that foliage. Most failures are due to removing the top foliage (mowing or weed-whacker) and then trying to "kill the rest", or to applying to water-stressed plants in the mistaken belief that they will be more susceptible. Whatever you are trying to kill off, water it thoroughly to get it growing, spray carefully, wait a couple of days for the glyphosate to translocate to the roots ... and THEN mow or weedwhack or whatever. It improves your kill rate.

I find it interesting when people talk about organic-versus-inorganic or chemical-versus-non-chemical or natural-versus-synthetic. interesting indeed. Everything is chemical. Everything is natural. Unless of course it came from the moon or lets say Mars. Folks there is nothing new under the sun. It is plant or flesh or mineral. I am not smart enough to evaluate the toxic value of Roundup, Vinegar, cyanide or French Fries. Too much of any of these will properties kill you. Each of them are natural. A cotton shirt is from natural resources. A nylon shirt is from natural resources. Ammonia nitrate is from natural resources. A hydrogen bomb is from natural resources. Too much of anything will kill one or more people. I think that potassium is necessary for our continued life. I know that too much potassium in our system is lethal.

Sorry. This will be a long one. It always is with me. (blushing) I'm with the OP on this one. Even if no one but me ever saw my lawn, I would want it to be dark, rich green GRASS...and nothing else. (I'm known for wanting everything to be beautiful. I'm also a bit of a home body, and enjoy spending time in my yard. Many guests have remarked that, no matter where they look (on my property), there's always something beautiful. I'm always taken aback by those comments, since while that was MY goal, I never expected others to pick up on it.) Case in point about the intentional act of putting down grass, and not other (lower maintenance) plants. I own a small, remote island. I made the decision to create a lawn area and, once you include the slow-moving barge fees (3 days to get from its port to the island), labour, equipment, and materials, that lawn cost me $14,000. That obviously begs the question, why, on earth, would anyone spend a nickel putting in expensive, high-maintenance grass, only to let it be taken over by clover and other weeds??? My husband and I recently purchased a 19th century farmhouse in need of roof-to-foundation renovation. As such, I inherited a lawn that is EASILY 70% weeds, including clover so thoroughly interwoven, it would be impossible to pull by hand. I pride myself on my beautiful lawns and gardens, and can spend/have sent hours, each day, ensuring everything is healthy and how I want it. At my last home, I developed a bit of a reputation for being out weeding my lawn by hand for hours, plus how awesome my expansive lawn was. My point is, I want my lawn and gardens to be a certain way; plant the plants I want; pull the plants I don't want; unafraid to put-in the effort to achieve that. I prefer not to use any kinds of "chemicals", other than the ammonia and mild soap I include in my homemade fertilizer recipe. (My last home was a beach house. So, that only reinforced my desire to go chemical-free.) But this new-to-me house is demoralizing me...practically to the point of tears, much of it because of the state of the (laughing) "landscaping". Sure, mowing can cut off 60% of the sea of clover flowers that make my lawn look white (or dying...can't decide which). But there are still lower flowers that seem to sprout up to full height within the next 24hrs after a mow. These flowers last from late spring to fall. In short, I'm plagued by clover flowers throughout the entire season I want my lawn to look great. It's just such a shame the previous owners didn't nip the clover in the bud, when each plant was jut a little, round cluster. I love catching them early, knowing I've stopped additional infiltration. But I'm helpless, overall. Looks like I'll have to replace the entire lawn; start from scratch; do what the previous owners SHOULD have done, and pulled weeds when I first see them. I'm not really buying the whole "benefits of clover" thing, amidst a grass lawn. If I wanted a clover lawn, I would plant a clover lawn. Putting down and maintaining grass is an expense in time and resources. Clover is virtually free (since it shows up on the wind), and is seemingly mantenance-free. Since most sod and grass seed are sold with some guarantee of being weed- (and clover-) free, I just don't believe that most people who spend the money and effort to put in a grass lawn, are okay with losing any percentage of it to other, invasive, undesirable plants. I kind of liken it to suggesting that a Ferrari owner would be okay with someone switching it with a Cavalier, and just saying, 'They both get me from point A to point B, so I don't mind.' I can fully envision putting in other kinds of ground cover, and have considered it at past properties. Not being my first rodeo, I already have substantial plans to reduce the amount of lawn area, and increase planting beds. But much of this current property begs for a beautiful, thick, dark green lawn...of grass. No dandelions. No clover, but particularly no clover flowers. (I'd be more okay with clover, if not for the flowers.) The desperation was so great, I did something I thought I'd never do, and tried the iron-based WEED-B-GONE product. (Harsh, chemical herbicides have been banned in my area for years...resulting in public parks being taken over by weeds, for the most part. It's such a shame, in the sense that a healthy, well-maintained lawn is not only beautiful, but fantastic underfoot.) That is really my philosophy, beyond the aesthetic. A lawn should be cool, soft, and luxurious under bare feet. Weeds, even overgrown grass, also tend to make barefoot walking less than a joy. So far, I haven't found a way to get rid of mats of clover. The WEED-B-GONE did nothing I could notice. I'm at my rope's end on ths matter, and likely will have to pull up the entire lawn, to put down new, almost-weed-free sod, where I can physically manage pulling individual weeds as they appear. I guess I'd plead with people to pull unwanted clover plants when they're small... if not for yourself, then for the next property owner. Sure, it means time, every day, or every few days, combing the lawn, looking for weeds. Yes, it can be back-breaking and time-consuming. But that grass lawn didn't get there by accident. A grass lawn is intentional.