I wouldn't think an 8' plant would cast a whole lot of shade for a person. If it's 8'x8', how would a person get under it? If you aren't concerned with an evergreen for year round coverage, perhaps a crape myrtle? One of the hardy ones that can handle your zone? Be mindful their shed flowers can damage some things; you wouldn't want them on your car, and maybe not staining a patio. Have you looked at the Japanese Maples? One of the dissectum types with red foliage could give you a lot of color. You mention 8'x8' - are you wanting a mound of vegetation, or are you wanting a 'lolly pop' - a 'stick' bare trunk below with a rounded crown of vegetation above? Do you look weeping plants? Pyramidal? Evergreen or deciduous? Richard.

So, here are the trees I would leave on your list just to start--crudely grouped: Now lets group them some: Linearlobum: Atrolineare Japonicum/other: Aconitifolium Attaryii Green Cascade O Taki Palmatifolium Psuedosieboldianum Vitifolium Dissectcums: Baldsmith Chantilly Lace Green Mist MidoriNoTeiboku (deeply divided) Octopus Red Dragon Orangeola Viridis Spring Delight Green Upright: FJELLHEIM Beni kawa Arakawa Hogyoku Japanese Sunset Nicholsonii Tana Utsu Semi Winter Flame Verigated: Butterfly Red Upright: Burgundy Lace Bloodgood (Local nursery, 6' tall, $79.00) Boskoop Glory Emperor One Fireglow Moonfire Nigrum Ogon Sarasa Okagami Oshio beni Red Emperor Trompenburg Tsukushi Gata Umegae Yugure Dwarf/Semi-Dwarf: Pixie Shania Wilson's Pink Dwarf Skeeter's Broom Sekka Yatsubusa Kurui Jishi Okushimo Other: Azuma murasaki Beni komachi Kinran Omurayama Oregon Sunset Sazanami Shigarami ____________________________________________________ For and 8-10 bed, I would do this to the list: Japonicum/other: O Taki Palmatifolium Psuedosieboldianum Dissectcums: Green Mist Red Dragon Orangeola Spring Delight Green Upright: FJELLHEIM Beni kawa Hogyoku Winter Flame Red Upright: Burgundy Lace Bloodgood (Local nursery, 6' tall, $79.00) Boskoop Glory Emperor One Nigrum Oshio beni Dwarf/Semi-Dwarf: Shania Sekka Yatsubusa I would pick one of the japonicum/ other with the most upright habit--O'taki is my favorite and plant it near an edge so that is can grow out and over the bed, but make sure it grows up. I would then place a dissectum near the middle, like Red Dragon or Orangeola (I have grown Orangeola in full sun exposure with good luck. Then I would place Shaina on the other side. Scenario two: Hogyoku with Emperor I anchored with Orangeola or Spring Delight. Scenaro three: Oshio Beni or Nigrum with Winter Flame or Fjellheim--use Sekka yatsubusa in the foreground. Hope that helps. I would grow all your plants on for a couple of years to get some size on them, but if you must put them in the ground, go for it. They are just too small in my opinion. I used 3 trees in your bed, but many might feel that is too many. If you are concerned use 2 and they will easily fill in the bed. I took out Butterfly, but you could use it if you want. Some years it will burn, expecially in drought, but I have grown it in full sun. MJH

Here is the USU publication on selecting trees. If you're using EDDHA chelated iron and a foliar spray, your trees should be greening up. I usually add the chelated iron at the same time as I do the deep watering. I pick 4 spots around the drip line. I often put some compost in a 5 gallon bucket, let it sit for a little while (really just a few minutes) put 1/4 of the recommended amount of chelated iron down, pour the compost "tea" slowly on that spot, so it soaks in and carries the iron with it. Then I set the hose there and let it run on a trickle for an hour (or, if the soil is soaking up the water well enough, I'll let it run a bit faster and for only about 15 minutes). I repeat the process at the other 3 spots I picked out. A month or so later, I pick out 4 new spots to water. I usually try to hit the midpoints of the last watering. So, for example, if I first watered N-S-E-W, the next time, I'll do NE-SW-NW-SE. I probably do three deep waterings each year, maybe 4. When you spray the water soluble iron, do you use shampoo or dishsoap to the water? The soap acts as a surfactant/wetting agent, so it helps it spread more evenly and stick a little better. Have you tried adding soil sulfur? I added it a few times, but didn't realize that I wasn't doing much good by spreading it on the top of the soil. Getting the bulb auger seems to have made a big difference. Of course, it was also the time I bought a big bag (I don't remember for sure, but I think it was a 50 lb bag, for one large tree). Another thing that might help (although I think it would be short term and have limited effect) would be to add some vinegar to the water. I wouldn't add much--maybe a quart diluted in 5 gallons. I think that would have a fast, limited and short term effect. If you're really desperate, there are "iron pills" for trees. Basically, they're iron in a gel cap. You drill a small hole (or several holes, depending on the size of the tree) in the trunk of the tree, insert the gel cap and seal with grafting wax. Drilling a hole in the trunk isn't good for a tree, but if the alternative is losing the tree, the hole is less damaging than having a tree that can't produce chlorophyll. If you're going to try these things, you need to do it really soon. If you wait until the leaves are out and turning yellow, it's already too late. As for amending the soil when planting, I've read conflicting advice on that. It used to be commonly advised, but most of what I've read in the last few years recommends against it. Especially in conditions like ours with the heavy clay. The problem with amending the planting hole is that it then becomes much more porous than the rest of the lawn, creating what is often referred to as a "bathtub effect" where the water from the nearby denser soil drains into the bathtub created by the soft amended soil. Most of what I've read recently recommends planting in the native soil, then adding mulch, compost, etc on top of the soil. Another problem with amending the soil in the tree hole is that then the tree roots have a difficult time expanding beyond the amended soil. There's some sort of soil barrier effect. I used to be a big believer in digging a big hole, amending the heck out of it and planting the tree in it, but I think that approach may be largely responsible for the demise of the magnolia I planted a few years ago (lost it to chlorosis and I think killed with kindness because it was overwatered).

ci_lantro No. You owe NO apology. I'm not offended at all by what you wrote. I'm happy. I'm happy you're there and not here. I meant that literally. I didn't want to start a debate lest someone reading be offended. The climates are extremely horrible here, right now. Financial, political and literal climate. With the price of oil really low people in the industry are running away as fast as they can. The price of oil being really low means our economy is deplorable. Meanwhile, the governor banned the right of cities to raise minimum wage. She banned the right of cities to ban fracking and running all over the place with corporate money in blatant shameful ways while crushing our education system. Quakes, quakes, quakes. And I live in the oil pipeline hub. People are sensitive about this subject and that's why I wasn't sufficiently clear in the original post. I didn't want to bring it up. lol In short, I wish I could leave. Can I come stay with you? LOL Just kidding. But I'd give anything to leave under decent circumstances. I won't have a home standing in a few years. Insurance won't cover damage from these quakes. Talk about depressing: I have 1/2" cracks in my sheet rock and all the other problems with finish on a mildly quake-damaged home, but the quakes are so numerous making repairs - even if we could afford them - is not cost prohibitive. 2 and 3 times a day. It gets on a roll. In generally, there is 1 good-sized "I feel it" quakes a week but every now and then it's non stop with sleepless nights up to 15 times within 24 hours. Like many homes in this area, the origin portions of the house is from the 1930s. Def not quake proof. The old historic buildings downtown have fallen to the ground from the quakes and the city is cleaning them up ... at our expense. The oil natives in the state are pitted against those who believe in man-made quakes and the science that backs it. I understand. Many here have had family in oil for generations and the reality ... well, it's just hard for them. I've never been in oil, but I'm not stupid about its importance to our economy even if the price of gas is cheap. The rest of us need homes and most of us never recovered beyond the 2000 tech bubble. We moved to rural areas, like this, to live within our means. In short, I was being blunt and literal on my post. It's only a sore spot because it is really bad right now, but not because you wrote anything offensive. If I'm not careful, I start to feel hopeless. So, the first thought I had to your post was, literally, thank god she's not here.