That’s a lot of layers of primer and foundation, etc in that Jane Iredale video. I’ve tried primer under foundation and I never saw any difference.

I finally got around to rereading some posts, and read more about bedroom eyes.

Gscience, you're right, Mila does have bedroom eyes.

Lucy, while looking in the mirror a bit ago without smiling, my lids are the same as they were in the first picture, and I'm not having problems seeing...just yet. I sure hope that doesn't happen!

Allison, I was finally able to reread your post again, I've been so busy doing winter cleaning/organizing because of Christmas I haven't had a minute to myself.

Okay, with all due respect, I don't understand how you can give a positive review on skin care products when you often get both BBL and Halo treatments, or say you were lucky enough to inherit your mother's nice skin. Both are contradicting.

@bbstx, I was thinking of RealSelf, it's not make up but procedures. I don't have rosacea or melasma, just a little redness here and there. I think the sunken eyes are partly hereditary. I just had my second upper eye lid surgery a few weeks ago. Last one was 9yrs ago. I don't have sunken eyes, but DD1 (36yo) gets them if she looses even a small amount of weight.

Personally, I think if anyone is trying to look flawless (aka any of the Kardashians, magazine covers, etc) that too much makeup would be required and that rarely looks good in person.

I just started having Halo treatments (just had my 2nd) and BBL (same) on a regular basis, and I'll be 60yo next year. The last time I had a BBL was never. I had PPL twice, last time was years ago. I mistyped earlier, and will go back and correct. I only recently started going to a dermatologist on a regular (annually) basis, and have been told by many people that I have nice skin. I am not one to buy/try every and/or expensive products, but I do wash my face 2x a day and keep my hands off of my face.

I came back to read your last list since I had just gotten up, thinking surely I misunderstood. Why can’t I give positive (or negative) reviews on skin care products? So are you saying I should delete my posts, because I will be happy to. Does that mean only people with bad skin and wrinkles should comment? Just so we are all on the same page.

I just feel like that as we age, there is only so much that we can do to camouflage that. We are just getting old and we can never make ourselves look like we did in our 30s! I have the dreaded "hooded lids" which, when I was a young woman, it was a feature that made me look pretty, but now as an old woman, it is a feature that makes me look OLD and TIRED! I'm pretty good at knowing how to create the illusion of not having a hooded eye lid but as I'm getting older and older, that is getting harder and harder.

I can tell from your young picture, that as you got older, your eyes would start to look droopy. It is what it is, as they say. You are probably your own worst enemy and to everyone else, you picture probably looks just fine. I was recently photographed and thought the pictures of me looked so old and hideous. Well, the other day my husband was looking at these photos that where taken and he said out loud, "this is such a good picture of YOU but I look ridiculous". HAHA!

Oakley, I believe that your eye lid shape is called "prominent eyelid". Try looking that up. Your eyes are droopy on the outer corner. You can create somewhat of a camouflage with liner and shadow but there is really only so much you can do . Also, you have to remember that when we see photos of older women in magazines, stars and models, they have been severely airbrushed!

Arkansas Girl is right. We truly are our own worst enemy. The images we see of other adult women are NOT authentic. Filters and Photoshop see to any perceived "flaw", and it is a rare Instagram or Facebook photo that has not been tweaked, what with everyone so eager to present a flawless image to the world.

Our best option if we dislike how we look in photos (which will always be dependent on lighting, shadows, etc.) Is a decent photo editor. Although I am starting to see value in getting more and more comfortable with not being repulsed by our real faces (and necks!).

Oh, and if we look tired once we're past 50? Well, no schitt! We ARE tired!

No kidding, Ida and Arkansas girl and Allison.

I have debated about answering because every time we discuss skin care products or what works, you can get a million answers and what works for one might not work or be too pricey for another.

I can tell you what I use at age 71 is not what I used at age 50. I have tried several different things recently because I was trying to save a few dollars here or there thinking it was all the same. Well, it’s not, and I ended up having fun experimenting, but ended up back with my favorite products in a few cases. Another thing is that I think I look pretty good until I zoom in on my eyes and see all those wrinkles, especially when I smile. And I’m not going to quit smiling.

IdaClaire just said exactly what I was going to say. When you see before and after photos on the internet, you are seeing the work of photo editing much more than the actual make-up.

Pretty much every woman I know in real life does not look that dramatically different with make-up or without. A little eyeliner or a little concealer, etc., can make some difference but it won't be as dramatic as anyone you see online, because all of that is edited.

We are our own worst enemy - I can almost guarantee you whatever flaw you are noticing on yourself is unlikely to even be on anyone else's radar.

Pretty much every woman I know in real life does not look that dramatically different with make-up or without.

Hmm, that is not my experience at all. I have often seen someone "sneak" to the grocery store fresh faced and been quite surprised how different they look when I see them at say, a charity or school gala.

It's not just older women whose faces are manipulated digitally, physically and through makeup. Women in the early 20s are having procedures done to look more like the so-called Kardashian ideal, for want of a better descriptor.

Oakley, re R & F, I've used their products for 2-3 years. This is the first skin care product line I've used which I've remained loyal to. DD and I were comparing notes at Thanksgiving and both agree we have no desire to stray from R & F. She has used other products when out of R&F and says her skin just does better with R&F. We both incorporate Retin A into our respective R&F regimens because it is still considered the gold standard for anti-aging.

Fair enough Mtn. I don't like a heavily "made-up" appearance, and I think too many older women overdo it with the application. I see a lot of women veering into clown territory. Again IMO obviously. Perhaps you're hanging out with a different crowd than me. :)

It's no secret that I've used injectables, including Voluma and Botox. The Voluma lasted much longer than anticipated (even my doctor was surprised), as it's now been well over three years and I'm just now seeing the signs of its abatement. Problem is, it's disappearing at a faster rate on one side of my face than the other, which has given me a somewhat lopsided look. Oh, I doubt anyone looking at me would realize it, as it's barely perceptible - but if I TOLD you what to look for, you'd definitely see it then. I suppose this shouldn't come as a shock; after all, I knew the effects would wear off eventually. I am not, however, pleased with the way it's wearing away so unevenly, and I am almost feeling compelled to go back for a redo. Almost. I've pretty much decided that this is not how I want to spend the limited funds that we have. For what it would cost to re-plump my face, I could take a wonderful 2-week-long hiking trip to the canyons next year. It's a trade-off for sure, as I simply cannot "do or have it all", and I am at the point in my life where I'm reassessing my priorities, for sure. The older I get, I think I would rather GO and DO, instead of trying to make myself look younger. As the adage goes, YMMV.

I think Patrice and Mtn are saying the same thing ... You both know of / have seen women who wear entirely too much makeup, and are practically unrecognizable when you DO happen to glimpse them fresh-faced. Did I get that right?

Allison, please don't delete, I totally get where you are coming from. For you and others who feel less is more on older faces, I agree. Really, even on younger faces. I think that skincare is priority - have the best skin you can! For me, certain ingredients are necessary as I get older. H acid and glycolocic acid have made a difference for me. My skin has gotten drier as I get older. I do not like alot of make-up on my face. I don't wear primers. I use good moisturizer as a base and then use concealer only where needed. I can get a bit dark under my eyes so a peachy/pink concealer there makes a huge difference. I use a light dusting of mineral powder. I DO NOT put the powder under my eyes. If you have lines under/around your eyes, powder in those area is not your friend. I use just a bit of blush. The woman in the picture above - I hate that look - her blush is so obvious. It should look natural. Neutral tones on my eyes, no sparkly/frosted shadows. I do line up upper lids and just a bit under the lower lid. My eyes are my best feature and that plays them up. BUT, don't use too much! I first take a q-tip and go over the liner and then with a bit of a darker eyeshadow to set the liner, make it last. I also use mascara. I'm fair and my mother preached PUT SOME LIPSTICK ON to me my teen years. I do look pretty washed out without it, but I discovered lip stain, which gives color but looks more natural. If I'm going out, want to play it up a bit, I have a gloss stick that I love and I will put that on over the lipstain. In the warmer months I'll use a bit of a bronzer powder as I do not get sun on my face - at all. I use sunscreen all over, but spend alot of time outside and even with the SS, I will tan some, hence the bronzer.

I think the issue with the type eyes mentioned above is the lower lids are also heavy, and I'm guessing maybe as we age, that would become more pronounced. I'm not sure what would minimize that, but I agree with others, I would consult a make-up specialist to see how to address that.

Ida, I think you are getting it. :) What I said was probably not one of my more clear comments. LOL.

Let me try again.

If someone is a very skilled make-up artist, they are able to take what they have and make multiple minor tweaks, which creates an end result that is still them - only slightly better in all kinds of subtle ways. Subtle is the key.

Like most of the arts in life, the average person is not all that skilled in them though. Then as we age, we lose visual acuity. So too many older woman start pasting on more and more make-up to compensate for the natural signs of aging.

The before and after "ageless" video posted has clearly been doctored. And it makes me sad to see someone trying to emulate something that is likely not achievable in real life.

Another thing to recognize is that it is probably going to be physically impossible to do precision-lining of the eyes as we age. That crisp line that we might try to emulate just ain't gonna happen in most cases, since our eyes are going to have sags and creases and other "imperfections" which keep makeup from gliding on as it did when we were ... well, twelve, maybe. Application with a light hand and then BLENDING is imperative, I have found. Otherwise, one runs the risk of looking like this (and I've been guilty of veering in this direction a time or three myself):

100% agree Ida. Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words!

Oakley, just want to add that if I were to ever switch from R&F, I would take a serious look at Platinum Skin Care products. I learned about their peels here and absolutely love them! I would also take a close look at Paula's Choice products. And, Retin A is a must. I've, thankfully, used it since my 30's. It's a game changer.

I'm a firm believer in using premium, preferably medical grade, skin care products. They do make a difference.

Impromptu picture from this morning while testing out some eye and lip primer. Ignore the brows, they WILL be tweaked. lol

Will comment later and please note I did a lousy job with the eye shadow.

The picture posted lighter than it actually was. Hmmm.

"Beauty" products and/or procedures aren't just for those with unfortunate skin or the ravages of aging. Those blessed with good skin usually want to maintain it. And just because someone appears to have good skin and features doesn't mean they don't see something different in the mirror. We are often at odds with how we perceive how we look.

Anyway, I wear makeup every day and I think it can make a big difference. It doesn't take a lot and I try for it not to look "made up." The acid test for me is that it will not look awful in harsh sunlight.

In any event, I'm vain enough to think I look better with a little makeup (light foundation, pencil liner, mascara, blush). It gives me more confidence and I don't mind admitting it.

Oakley, you look fantastic in your impromptu picture! I'll bet that the picture that you didn't like that prompted you to start this thread was the result of bad lighting.

Looking good woman, I don't think you have a thing to worry about!!!! :)

I agree - you look great! Keep doing whatever you're doing, because clearly it works very well for you.

Speaking of photoshopping and impossible standards, This is an old article about the photoshopping done to Faith Hill. I know it happens to every photo we see, but it’s still surprising how much they change

It’s fine to tweak your beauty care routines as time goes by but I wouldn’t base it on a picture from a poorly lit gymnasium.

I just wish I could have the make-up artist who did my make-up when DD married do my make-up every day. I looked natural, but better.

bbstx, same here. Everyone in the wedding party, plus the moms, got their makeup done together. I've never had it done so well and it lasted until I got home late and took it off. I wish I'd written down every product and color she used. I have no problem paying a premium for a makeup product that is demonstrably superior, but I really resent paying too much for something that doesn't deliver.

Ninety?!!! Wow, your mom is really beautiful. Great hair, too.

I have no idea what happened to the post I thought I made about an hour ago. Anyway....

Oakley, your skin is beautiful and you look great. Sure, you might have a few wrinkles in the usual places like the rest of us of a certain age group. Like others said, I would wager you just had a bad photo with really poor lighting that emphasized the worst.

I would perhaps play around some with a few different products for your eye care and maybe some primers, under-eye serums and concealers, and try the long-wear shadows, which imo don’t crease as much. In winter sometimes our skin can suffer in the dry air before we know it, despite our best efforts at staying hydrated and moisturizing, so pay attention if you think it’s getting dry. Retin-A is great, but it can be drying too, as can some other products if used too often. I have to back off some in really cold weather.

Bbstx, your Mom is beautiful.

Bbstx, could your mom please post her tips? Seriously, what she looks like is my goal if I am fortunate enough to live that long. She is stunning.

Had to be a one off bad photo. My driver's license is like that. It's so bad that if I ever go missing, I won't be found because that's the picture they put on the news: Woman missing, here's her photo. Call police if you see her. No one would ever recognize me based on that photo. I mean, it's really bad. You prob just had one of those pictures. From the pic above, all is well, carry on. : ) Btw, I haven't found an eye cream that actually does what it says it will do. I have settled on one that doesn't seem to burn my eyes and I'm calling it a day on that. I've tried like 15 eye creams. All not doing what they say they will.

I just saw your impromptu pic, Oakley. There is nothing to worry about there. You look fab.

SEA SEA, I'll bet my driver's license photo is worse than yours. It's ghastly. It's so bad, I don't even know why I ventured out the house that day without a bag over my head. I've been tempted to tell them I lost it, even if I have to go in to DMV and have another photo taken. With my luck they'll say, nah, we'll just reuse your last photo.

You did a great job today! I especially love the lips. To still have nice full lips is a real benefit. I'm very jealous.

Also, mostly I'm posting because I have the same Mother of Cats shirt! lol

Haha Bunny! I had the same thought, but came to the same conclusion! lol

My kids and friends at times will ask me to pull out my DL because they need a good laugh!! Haha. Sadly it works every time. haha Sorry you have one of those awful photos too. You know that photo goes into the anscestry data base, right? I'm sad that my descendants will think I was so ghastly!

@Zalco/bring back Sophie! Mom washed her face with Dove and moisturized freely with some Estée Lauder product that she bought by the 55 gallon drum. ;-) She loved to garden, but always wore a long-sleeved shirt and a wide-brimmed hat. She never ”sunbathed.” She ate a well-balanced diet, but not exactly a “clean” diet. She loved Snickers! And thought the finest breakfast you could have was chocolate pie. Nevertheless, she was always slender. She could not abide processed food. I was 20 before I knew what American cheese was.

Thanks to all of you who commented. I, too, always thought my mother was pretty.

I think that your makeup looks very natural and not overdone. I think that's pretty much the goal as we age and aren't in our 30's anymore. I can remember wearing tons of makeup back in the big hair and makeup days of the 90s. If I tried to do that now, I would look like a cross dresser! HAHA! I have to be very careful now, not to wear too much makeup or I will look ridiculous!

Oakley, your eyes do not look tired and droopy at all! In fact, I think your eyes look more tired in that young picture than they do now. :)

We have all been makeup wearers in my family. Not sure how that happened because Mom didn't wear but just some lipstick but always looked great. My one older sister wears tons of makeup still and sometimes will have her eyes made up to look like the girl that IdaClaire posted. To me it's a bit much, but somehow she pulls it off, she is 67! Then my other sister(64), she decided that she wasn't going to worry about makeup anymore or styling her hair. So she just pulls her hair back in a ponytail and zero makeup. My other sister(70), she's done like I have and she has backed way off on the makeup, but still wears just enough to emphasis the assets and tone down what we are trying to hide. Whatever floats your boat.

You know that photo goes into the anscestry data base, right?

SEA SEA, you gotta be kidding me. Seriously? My possible relations are not encouraged.

I've been tempted to tell them I lost it, even if I have to go in to DMV and have another photo taken. With my luck they'll say, nah, we'll just reuse your last photo.

That's exactly what happened to me. I was pick-pocketed and my wallet was stolen. I thought that the silver lining in the incident would be that I would be able to re-take my dreadful driver's license picture. No such luck. They just redid my license with the picture on file. :-(

BB, I want to look like your mom when I grow up. :)

Actually it would e great if the photo went there! lol. All but one of my grandparents (granddad) had passed before I was born. My dad was an only child, my mom grew up in an orphanage beginning around age 5. I know absolutely nothing about the three that passed

Ida, the thing is, it doesn't take a great deal of makeup to look nice. It just takes a good product (drug store brands do qualify) and how to apply it. I was shocked at all the goop put on those ladie's faces.

I'm more concerned with skin tone and of course my eye's looking dead. I don't wear foundation and rarely I wear concealer. In the above pic I did have concealer on under the eyes, and I finally learned how to apply it. What a difference it made!

My eyes will always be a crap shoot though.

I remembered I had Elf Lip Lock crayon (used to be called pencil but they're the same product) and I used it today for the first time because my upper lip has recently started to feather a bit. They didn't feather at all with the Elf.

The new REAL IDs are worse. Or maybe my picture is just worse because I'm a lot older now than I was the last time I had a driver's license photo taken.

They told me the feds won't accept the photo if you're smiling in it? No clue if that's true or if the clerk at DMV was screwing with me. LOL. So I didn't smile. I look ticked at the world (I wasn't), and the photo is some sort of sepia or black/white toned thing that makes me look like a pissed off washed-out zombie.

Yes, patriceny, they don't let you smile in the govt photos anymore. But I suspect it depends on the clerk because when it was time for my worst photo ever at the DMV, I was not allowed to smile and the clerk wouldn't take my photo until I stopped smiling. But, a short while later dd had to go to a different govt office to get her passport renewed and she's all smiles in that photo. Apparently, my resting face looks like a Clint Eastwood type challenging anyone to make my day, but insert Captain Kangaroo's face and hair style, minus the mustache. We've all commented about how did they even do that with the hairstyle? I don't have that haircut. They gave me bangs!

Sounds like when we go for our 2nd chance with the Real IDs, it will be worse...pissed off washed-out zombie is a pretty bad look to go down in posterity.

bbstx's mother is beautiful. How nice to be that healthy and have it show. : )

You have a gift with words Sea Sea. Thanks for the giggles.

Also, bbstx's mother is the bomb! I don't look that good now. I'm in my 50s!!

@User you are so right! I totally giggled with @SEA SEA's post. Captain Kangaroo . Got to love it. And yes, @bbstx your mom is lovely. How lucky to have such great genes!

Bbstx, what an absolutely beautiful mama! She looks like a woman who simply exudes grace and class and kindness. Her physical beauty is just icing on the cake.

BBTSX, Your Mom looks like she should be a First Lady (or better yet Madame President).

Oakley, so cool to see your HS pic and today --- totally recognize you. Both are such nice photos.

Oakley, I agree. Your smile is in your eyes. They are lovely.

Bbtsx, I think there's something to your mom's simple skin care routine. And, of course, her smile is beautiful, as well.

As an added note, everyone, I have big news! I went to the DMV last week and had to get a new driver's license photo taken... and I LOVE it! It's the best driver's license photo I've ever taken. I guess by now my expectations are so low, even though few will ever see it. Overall, though, I really like how I look these days.

Lobby, you're the only one who noticed! That's my favorite shirt.

Feathers, the same thing happened with my DL picture this year too. First time EVER. However, I deliberately put more makeup on my eye's and it worked. lol

Have you ever had someone do your make-up and show you the colors best for you? The right colors, etc. can emphasize your best features. Might be worth a try.