Well I think I've finally made my decision for what to buy. (lol - Got about 1 more week before I need order bulbs so a change is always possible, but not likely.) I've been reading up on aquarium lighting. No disrespect to the many knowledgeable people within the gardening online community, but on the whole, the aquarium lighting community is way more sophisticated than the terrestrial plant lighting community. The sales market is pretty much like the plant market, doesn't provide much data and prices of bulbs similar but a little cheaper. But the user community never talks about lumens; they talk in terms of PPFD, which we know is the best photosynthesis related unit of light measurement. I'm going to start a new thread about the great data you can get through the aquarium community and raise the question of why can't the land gardeners do the same. I'll leave my discussion of their data to the new thread so let's meet there if you interested in that. Aquarium folks like high color temps, so for HID, they use metal halides, probe and start. So you can find lots of great info on MH but essentially none on HPS or conversion bulbs. Some aquarium experts have generated spectral data for 900+ bulbs and it can be accessed through a site I'm naming over in the new thread. They have also written bulb comparison articles based on the same data. Based on their data I've decided to get two EVC (brand) 400W 10000K probe start metal halide bulbs ($57 ea), which run optimally on a M59 type ballast. The EVC bulb gets a very good PPFD (205 umol/m2/s) and a broad spectrum on the blue end (remember I'm focusing on vegetative growth). I'm going to get Magnetek M59 ballast kits ($83ea) because that was the one used for the testing of that bulb, although several folks said any ol' m59 should work fine. I'll gut one of my Sun System I housings and install a new ballast kit. Since probe start doesn't require an ignitor, things will be easier for me as a very novice electrical guy. I could have gotten slightly higher PPFD's with a few other bulbs but you had to start getting into HQI ballasts which cost a lot more. The second EVC bulb & ballast I'm going to install in my Sun System II fixture (self-contained). Thought about getting a 250W bulb instead of second 400w but decided against that. If I was going to get a 250w I would have gone with the XM 250w 10000K probe start MH and a M58 ballast. I will be starting seeds all along so by April my plant area might be too big for the two 400'ers to cover. If so, I'll kick in my spare 600W Super Hortilux system to get me to frost free outdoor conditions. Might even do that anyways if some plants look like they would benefit by more red light. If you match up the spectral curves of the EVC MH and the Hortilux Super HPS, you'd see that the combined light makes for a decent full spectrum although a bit weak in the desirable 640 nm peak area. Other HPS bulbs could do better I'm sure. A combo with the Philips Mastercolor 400w CMH HPS-retro might be a really nice full spectrum. I know the MH bulbs have shorter lifes and are less PAR/watt efficient than HPS, but that is just the cost of business to do what I want to do. If in the future suitable 600W HPS S106 compatible bulbs come along, I can put my old ballasts back in. I stopped considering the reg terrestrial plant-light bulbs because I could not get good data on them. I have more comments along that line which I'm going note in the new thread.

Some great information on this thread. I am in the SF Bay Area, USDA zone 10a (according to the maps) or Sunset zone 16. Recently I've become interested in tropical and subtropical plants, and which species I might be able to grow in my yard. I do have some questions about the USDA zones though, I know they go by average low temperatures instead of extreme lows, so by that definition my zone should be 11, not 10a, because all the climate information I can find says that the lowest average temperature here is 40 degrees (December 28th through January 1st are statistically the coldest days of the year). Yet zone 10a is for average low temperatures between 30-35 degrees - which zone am I in? Temperatures in the mid- to upper-30s aren't uncommon at all here in the winter when cooler systems pass through, but drops into the 20s happen maybe 1-3 times a year. The lowest temperature I have recorded at my house is 27 degrees, and we have had snow once (about an inch or less) on one occasion in the past decade, that was sort of a freak incident. This is all pretty typical for Sunset zone 16, which I feel is a much better description of my area than USDA zone 10a. Using the Sunset zones is difficult though, because none of the nurseries here use them, and because they mainly describe where a plant grows best, not where it just grows. So now I'm left wondering what I can get away with in my area... As mentioned above, mature Strelitzia reginae is not an uncommon sight here in the Bay Area. Maybe it's not as common as in LA, but it's definitely here. I actually just planted one in my yard today, and I'm anxious to see how it does. I fully expect it to get a bit of frost damage in the winter, but that doesn't bother me at all as long as the plant itself lives. I was also considering putting a Dwarf Cavendish Banana in the same spot, but decided against it because they are apparently not as cold hardy, and that particular location can get a bit windy. I am interested in planting more subtropicals/hardy tropicals in my yard if I can. I know there are some particularly cold hardy bananas, so I'm going to look into those. Has anyone had success growing Passionfruit in the Bay Area? I love vines and particularly the flowers of Passiflora. I am also considering putting a Pineapple Guava if I can find a good place, since it would be nice to have something that bears fruit (I have a couple nectarine trees, but none of their fruits mature because of peach leaf curl that I can't get rid of).

Good ideas so far. A few other ideas to keep in mind: Price per pound is good, but also keep in mind price per serving. For instance, a boneless roast is worth much more than bone-in. Compute waste into your end cost calculations. Also, sometimes you can find "individual" serving sizes can actually save you money. For instance, one of my "treats" is occasional snack/junk food. Rather than buy a big bag of potato chips which will go stale quickly when opened, I buy the single serve bags of the assorted chips/popcorn/cheese curls at Aldi. That lasts me 4-6 months and satisfies my treat desire. Certainly more expensive than buying a big bag of generic chips, but factor in the waste (as mentioned before) it still is cheaper. A friend has young kids and buys sliced cheese rather than block since a kid's slice is a slice whether 1/32" thick or 1.5" thick! Granted, they could slice it for them, but they splurge a bit on that with a compensation. A calculator, pen and paper are your best friends for shopping. Just because an endcap says it's on sale doesn't mean it's a good value. Frugal living is not something learned or embraced overnight. It's a lifestyle that you get into more and more. Accept that now and then you'll get fooled on a cost, we all have. For instance, seeing what you think is a good buy and it turns out the size is smaller than usual, or whatever. I always recommend the Tightwad Gazette series to people to use as a learning tool. It gives you ideas to think out of the box as they say. For instance, maybe you can't save money this week on groceries. Don't fret. But how about saving on paper towels? Start using washable rags and ween yourself off paper towels? Perhaps a different toilet paper will work for you? I, and many others, like Scott brand and there's some generics with the same ideal. 1000 sheets per roll and if you start to watch your use (don't go crazy, but pay attention) this can be a very frugal product. Again, factor in the number of sheets since that's how you use it. One roll of Scott is equivalent to 5-7 rolls of other brands. I usually buy it for about 50-60¢ per roll. Perhaps you can use some cloth napkins instead of paper napkins? Dedicate some washcloths. They don't have to be fancy. And don't make a special purchase, use what you have. Other things, the usual turn off lights/TV/radio/stove etc not in use, unplug "wall warts" when not in use, use CFLs for significant savings. When baking, you can turn off the oven ahead of time and use residual heat to finish up. These are all starting steps. "Baby steps" if you please. Keep calm by all means don't panic. Record your successes and pat yourself on the back for them. Pay attention to your money and compare your bills. Do you have some old receipts? Track them and see what you're paying for that can of beans, or tuna, or celery. Log prices of commonly purchased items and learn what really is a good price. If you buy something only once a year, it's not as important as something you buy weekly. Of course don't forget gasoline. If you don't have to make that trip this time, you'll save money just in gas. Check your insurance for better prices and to see if you're overinsured. Maybe you can share things and split costs. Do you have a neighbor that can use part of a bulk pack that saves you both money? Or can just one of you shop for both if you only need a few things? Or carpool to the store? Reduce, reuse, repair, recycle. Have a pantry and sometimes go without? Don't torture yourself but maybe instead of a special trip to get meat for dinner, you settle for omelets for supper, or canned soup and enjoy something different. Very important: Mindset. If you look at it as an adventure and new experience it'll go fine. If you look at it as depriving yourself, it won't. You're doing what you have to do. And be cautious of false pride. Make it known that you'd rather receive a ham or turkey as a gift instead of a souvenier plate from Disneyland. Are you in a situation where you can share a garden? Someone can come use your land for a garden, or hunting or something and you get part of the "take"? Again, think outside of the box. Trick yourself into saving money. For instance we often use too much shampoo for example. Take the bottle and dilute it 50/50 with water. It'll work as well and you'll cut your cost in half. A disabled husband can present unique challenges for you. Not knowing the nature you may not be able to turn down the heat too much and use sweaters, sweatshirts, etc. But you could close off rooms that aren't in use and turn off the heat registers in there too. There's a lot of good info in the forum. And a lot of good, caring people. It's helpful to kick ideas around, success stories, failures, suggestions and the like. I know you have ideas to contribute too. Don't be bashful! Keep on posting! Let us know how it's going!

It is definitely a very pretty yellow rose, but it looks best when the temperatures are cooler. Also, as a heads up, the plant wants to throw very long canes. Repeat bloom has not been particularly good for me, but I am thinking that it, along with just about everything else in my garden, gets set back when we have late freezes after everything is up and going. It probably would do better where late, hard freezes are not a big problem. This freeze problem is not limited to the roses. I am seeing that it adversely affects a number of my usually fairly sturdy tree peonies. Some of them are either not even going to bloom this year or maybe just have 1 flower after that hard freeze we had last May.