When are home renovations no longer worth the investment?
Laurie
2 months ago
last modified: 2 months ago
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Toronto Veterinarian
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What's a 'healthy' investment into an old home?
Comments (14)victoriandream, My DH is an attorney & banker. He is NOT a handyman although he tries...Bless his heart. We are both gardeners &, if I do say so myself, accomplished gardeners. So, we've done the garden restoration & hired 95% of the home renovations. It took us about 15 minutes with a heat gun to realize that we were never going to be able to strip all that paint off the millwork ourselves. And, if we did we would ruin the woodwork! :) There are times in economic & societal cycles when historic homes ARE a good investment. We are not now nor have we been in that type of cycle for, maybe, the past 8 years thereabouts. Will it again turn in favor of historic homes? Sure, but who knows when? Just like...if one had such a desire...avacado-green carpet is again available. (Ugh!) Everything is cyclical. You should, IMO, never purchase an historic home with the intention of making a bundle. That's not realistic. Facts are that it costs considerably more to restore these homes than it would to bulldoze & build new on the site. Those pesky appraisers & lenders don't share our emotional attachments so they often block our dreams of grandeur. In many cases, they save us from ourselves! Yes, we had kids. The ranged in age from 8 to 13 when we purchased that 1848 colonial. Our son is a pro at stripping wallpaper! During their teen years they had great ghost stories to entertain their friends! They may have suffered from things we did as parents (?); but I don't believe living in a period home did them any lasting damage. LOL You will know your stewardship is over when you hesitate before starting the next project. Or, you'll know when the checkbook is running on fumes because you can't even stay in a period home, much less restore it, without being bankrolled. They suck money like a vacuum from your wallet. Your daughter is precious! And, what a grand lady your home is! Wonderful that you've got old pictures for a guide. Did you have to strip ALL that millwork? OMG! I think you've done a lovely job of maintaining the 'feel' for the kitchen while still bringing to a 21st century functionality. I love the windows. The windows in our 1848 home were narrow & tall. Window treatments were like trying to dress spaghetti! Yes, our East Lake, Brilliant Period Cut Glass, & tapestries would have worked wonderfully in your home. The auction was sorta fun...we've actually done that thing twice (auctioning off our entire household...that's how we've managed to upgrade our collections...buy, sell & then re-purchase fewer but higher quality pieces). I've got a cupboard that would be lovely in your kitchen...it's c. 1865 so very appropriate to your home. Here's its official description: A circa 1860-1870 step-back cupboard having pie shelf beneath shaped apron beneath a top case consisting of pair of paneled doors with tombstone and molded design with applied cornice molding. Top case rests on bottom case; double drawers above conforming paneled doors having recessed tombstone and molded design matching doors in top case; side panels of lower case also with inset tombstone shaped panels; side of bottom case terminates with successful "cupids bow" base cutout; front apron and feet conform to shaping above pie shelf. This cupboard retains desirable original chrome yellow surface with red highlights; faux birds eye decoration. (84-inches tall X 45-inches wide X 19 1/8-inches deep.) That's funny about you wanting to become boaters! We started with a small 21' sport lobster boat & quickly got a bad case of "Two-footitis". That's a common disease amongst boaters & it's contagious. We ended up with this...she's a Nordic Tug outfitted for long-distance cruising...the Bahamas to Maine. Stay away from boat shows. They are dangerous places! rofl I can really understand why you fell in love with your home & I'm sure she's grateful for your efforts. I know this may sound like blasphemy; but, have you considered a B&B? If not your heart, at least your tax returns would thank you. :) Your family will make many wonderful memories living in that house. If it were me, I'd sigh & start on that siding before the season gets away! :) /tricia...See MoreWhen to start kitchen renovations in a new house?
Comments (20)Work on your layout as a hobby until you get it right. Post it here for some impartial help. Once you get that worked out enough to know the scope of the project, then dream a while on the finishes. Many times, that's the most flexible portion of the project, and on a long project, a lot of people are already tired of what they picked by the time that the end of the project rolls around. Be sure that your choices aren't just "design ADD" where "oooo I LOVE every zen modern kitchen that I see on Houzz.....look there's a Tuscan one too!" It's fine to have an infatuation with many different looks, but only marry the one that suits your home's bones, and your family's living style. Minimalism is my personal sought after style, and it works with my house, but not as much with my design samples everywhere just this side of hoarding lifestyle. I'm hoping that redoing my home office will help with that, but I'm trying to be realistic by making sure that every single piece of furniture that I own will hold "stuff" and keep it from becoming clutter. Be similarly realistic about your home's bones and living style. A winery in Tuscany might be your retirement home sometime in the future, but decorating a 1980s Colonial Revival like it's that winery will not work with those bones. Maybe a painting of Tuscany, and use some of the colors with traditional wood cabinetry could work....but not the overly faux glazed and faux distressed and grapes and leaves and olives and wrought iron wine caves...etc....See MoreWhat's a 'healthy' investment into an old home?
Comments (17)Wisconsin was on the list, but I'm sorry dear...I need the entire 6000 sq ft :oP I want a big sewing room and DH insists on adequate wine storage...we have a 3 year old so that's a LOT of wine. Speaking of wine...do you drink? I think taking up drinking always helps with old house restoration issues :oP You know, we've taken this question of yours and applied it to all of the homes we've looked at throughout the country, mostly in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Washington. These big old beauties in particular are rather daunting when it comes to the sheer magnatude of work required to do the basic stuff that has to be done regularly, let alone the every so often stuff like new roofs. The one we had agreed to go ahead on had a serious need for an immediate paint job outside. $30,000!!! Ouch and you get to do that how many times in a lifetime? But if you can afford to love the joint, without being rediculous (we have looked at a couple of houses that were just too far gone to make it a wise investment) it is a rewarding task, especially with a beauty like yours. One of the houses we seriously considered was Starrett House (in port townsend wa, google it...it's gorgeous) ok it's gorgeous on the outside, and superficially on the inside, but when you start poking around you realize the serious needs. That gorgeous home, for sale for about a million, needs about a million put into it to bring it back to the show house it as when I was a little girl. It's an amazing home, and I absolutely would love to do it, but at that amount it's a rediculous purchase. I guess that would be the definative "unhealthy investment" although you'd be buying one of the nicest and most distinct homes in the pacific NW so I can see how someone could be talked into believing it was worthwhile...we even caught ourselves trying to justify the purchase LOL I hope your beauty has many many years ahead of her. She's amazing and if you stay or sell, I'm sure she's the type of home that will find the right people...homes like that normally do!...See MoreRepeat after me, a home is NOT an investment
Comments (120)I've been following this thread with interest & amusement. Some pretty hard line stances here. For the record, I consider my primary residence an "asset". It shows on my Balance Sheet as such and since we still have 8 years left on our mortgage there's a corresponding "liability" against that asset. However, when I calculate our "Retirement Savings" that asset is not included. We max out my husband's 401(k) & my IRA before we calculate what we can afford for housing costs. Houses go up & they go down. Neighborhoods have a life-cycle. If the location, etc. is good, they appreciate over a 2-3 decade period. Over this time frame, there will be periods of higher than normal appreciation & there will be periods of recessionary elements pushing back at the appreciation. Overall, during this time in a home's life cycle the overall average momentum will be up. Then, as they start showing their age...value begins to drop & often these neighborhoods become low income. After that phase, a lone wolf appears & purchases a piece of property...puts hard money into the place & renovates. Then another sees that there's potential in these old, run down places & buys into the lone wolf's dream. Soon, the old neighborhood is considered an "up & coming" place to be. And, the cycle begins anew. I don't know how long I'm going to own this home I'm living in now. I don't know where it will be in its life cycle when I decide it's time to sell. I may live here 30 years. Or, I may move next month. Due to the uncertainty of both when I will sell & the life cycle of real estate, I do not consider my home as a source of retirement income. I choose to raise my family in a stable environment. Therefore, I do not bounce them around from one house to another every 3-5 years treating my family home as an "investment" that requires portfolio management. Of course I'm pleased if the property appreciates. But, you won't see that appreciation on our "Return on Investment" calculations. It shows on the Balance Sheet only. Personally, I couldn't sleep at night if I was making a mortgage payment so high that I couldn't max out my 401(k) & IRA's every year. I'm old enough to have lived through several "boom & bust" real estate cycles. The appreciation of the last 4-5 years couldn't & won't last indefinitely. Prices will fall back & then slowly climb again. Remember back in the heady Nasdaq days? People were saying such ridiculous things as, "Oh, you're being a fool. It's a NEW economy now." Oh, phooey...there's nothing new under the sun. A company has to eventually make a profit or it will collapse. P/E ratios have to have some sanity behind them. Real estate is no different. It also must find a balanced equilibrium and it will. For some, the pendulum swings are painfull. Because of its inherent "cycles", I don't consider my primary residence either a "cash cow" or a retirement investment. So, there's another opinion. And, it's just that. My opinion. It works for us. The mortgage lenders say we can afford 5 times as much house as we have. We say that we can't afford that much house. We have to save for retirement first before we start spending. Our parents tought us to always save first. Tricia...See MoreJake The Wonderdog
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