The more I learn, the more I see how much I still need to know.

It is your statement above @Jay 6a Chicago that is an important component of the ongoing appeal to me of perennial gardening. I have long run out of space to enlarge our garden and yet growing and caring for annuals and perennials is still exciting to me.....there is always lots more to learn. I am just grateful that right now and hopefully going forward, for the foreseeable future, my mind and body can enjoy the process.

" All I know is that I know nothing" said Socrates. "tho an old man, I am but a young gardener" said Thomas Jefferson. So true! And, rouge 21 : "there is always lots more to learn. I am just grateful that right now and hopefully going forward, for the foreseeable future, my mind and body can enjoy the process." That's me, too , rouge-how well you put it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes! Isn't it part of the appeal of gardening that we continuously learn? I will never know everything and I find that exciting. I feel if I don't learn something new every day (or nearly) what was the point.

"... Never be afraid to cut something back or even down..."

Hmm, lol, I'm not so sure.

==>>>

well.. either way.. it solves a problem... either it bounces back.. or it dies.. and problem solved either way.. so 2 thumbs up ...

my epiphany was.. to put something OUT OF MY MISERY... exactly why is this thing spiking my blood pressure... year after year.. dude.. just get rid of it.. what someone once called.. basil pruning.. or shovel pruning..

the other way to learn about such.. is to drive the riding lawnmower while somewhat not sober.. and taking out a 2 or 3 foot swath of a garden bed.. lol ... you learn a lot that way also.. like not drinking and driving.. but this isnt really an allotment thing.. lol..

unlike children.. you are allowed to get rid of your problems.. so go do the right thing...

ken

What a wonderful & humorous read this post & thread is! My favorite guide to “chopping things back“ is this book. Cass Turnbull lived in Seattle, WA & was the founder of Plant Amnesty. That group’s first stated goal of three was ”…to alert the public to the crimes agaInst Nature being committed in their own backyards…” Cass had a great sense of humor & of the ridiculous & her book is easy to understand & so helpful to me as a reference. Cass died suddenly a few years ago but her books are still in production.

.

"... well.. either way.. it solves a problem... either it bounces back.. or it dies.. and problem solved either way.. so 2 thumbs up ... "

Well, yes, in theory that is true. In my case (and I am answering because you used my quote) the problem was there WAS no problem to begin with lol! Well, unless you count the problem of having a non-gardener for a husband haha. And in that case I still have that problem.... Actually, other than him occasionally cutting down gardens he thinks are weeds, I actually prefer him to be a non-gardener. The gardens are mine and I like it that way!

KW thanks for that book reference. Not only does she sound like a fun read, but I can use all the help I can get when it comes to pruning!

:)

Dee

@diggerdee zone 6 CT I saw the book is on Amazon - Although Cass’s focus was geared to plants growing in PNW where she lived she uses plant types as examples that are applicable to so many plant zones. My book is well thumbed as many friends have borrowed & returned when they got their own copy.

The last few years I haven't been overly pleased with the look of things, it became cluttered, the eye bouncing all over unable to make focus upon the blur of mass color! Been moving things around to give a bit more elbow room and it's now all becoming a bit more cohesive, pleasing, relaxing. My downfall has always been of planting by the single specimen rather than groupings and drifts, am currently reworking a large area maintaining a new more orderly focus.

“at some future point because my gardens never look anything like the ones on here (nice tidy clumps of plants, with actual paths and spaces to put your feet). ” Oh no, rosa, you know you don’t really want that..... Thats a plant collection, not a garden.

View from upstairs. Theres a shed under the rose and a tiny pond somewhere.

I have enjoyed lots and continue to relish..."collecting plants".

And I bet you have woven that collection into a beautiful garden,.

Good grief, Floral, that could be a picture of my allotment - the shed which has vanished under Snowgoose and Moonlight (and must be approached by crawling) and a tiny pond...somewhere...plus a massive amount of foliage.

I have not (yet) managed to weave it into anything approaching ' a garden' though, but have replanted the old vegetable beds with a considered design instead of the usual hotch-potch.

What really was revelatory was the decision to do away with my old gravel garden and put in a table and bench (because I was fed up with perching on the crumbling edge of the coldframe, whenever I need a sit-down). I cut and chopped, dug and hauled...all the easy things, leaving the old salvias, baptisias and romneya (which has finally decided to grow away), until I could nag one of the ingrates (offspring) into some fierce digging. Lo behold, it suddenly started to look quite decent. I put the table and bench in (although to get to it, you still have to climb over an ancient but sturdy orpine)...and decided to leave the remains alone.

I have the same infection which has afflicted others on here (Jay, Frozebudd, you know of what I write). Have decided that lack of space means I need tinier plants, so returning to an earlier love affair with alpines. That old brick coldframe is going to become my new sand bed.

Am checking out Plant Amnesty too, KW (although the house interior is worse than the outdoors with books taking the place of plants). No wall space left anywhere, in any room, including both sets of stairs with stacks of books on every one.

Well done, all of us. Surviving through another year, still gardening.

"... My downfall has always been of planting by the single specimen rather than groupings and drifts, am currently reworking a large area maintaining my new focus..."

Yes! Same issue here! Which is why I was so pleased when my daughter's apparently well-placed daisies made it look like such a cohesive border! In my own garden I am trying to do that but find myself plopping as usual, fitting a new plant into wherever I can find space. I am trying to make further purchases with some kind of plan in mind and hope to work on moving things in the fall. Was going to do it this spring but didn't get to it early enough and then of course I couldn't rip out the reseeders because they were doing too well. Once they are gone for the season I will (try to) be more ruthless and clear space for the "planned" stuff.

I do have to say I was well-pleased with myself this spring. Apparently last season I divided and planted some yellow irises all along my boundary with my neighbor (several beds there (only sunny spot) which I am trying to make into one long cohesive border) and it looked quite lovely with the irises blooming in small drifts all along the boundary. I have absolutely no memory of doing this (but had to be me since no one else here gardens) so it was a pleasant surprise. Added bonus was that the irises bloomed for WEEKS! Wish I knew what they were - another thing I need to work on; I seem to think I will remember every plant in my yard. And I used to, but those days are over!

"... the house interior is worse than the outdoors with books taking the place of plants..."

Again, same issue here! I work in a library but my love of books makes me buy things anyway. Have literal piles of books in each room. I will probably die before I read every book in the house but that's okay!

:)

Dee

My downfall has always been of planting by the single specimen rather than groupings and drifts

If "groupings and drifts" imply mass plantings then I for one don't have nearly enough room for such a gardening style.

Of course thank you 'floral' but I am for sure in the "collector aisle" and I have no qualms about it.

Rosaprimula, you make me laugh. The gut busting type of laughs Lol. In keeping with your theme, the perennials I hacked back to ground level are all putting on new growth.

A local wetland here in Illinois USA.

A bellflower, Tall Bellflower, Campanulastrum americana. What?

Lysimachia lanceolata or hybrida. Won't know til I return to the site and scrutinize the leaves.

Bats in the Belfrey, with Wood Nettle, Stone Root, and Northern Sea Oats.

Water Parsnip, (Sium sauve).

The hot mess of my garden.

A true croton, Croton capitatus. Im obsessed with this genus. No Codiaeums here.

I'm not being allowed to post any more photos. Have you read all the books you own? I'm more of a book collector than a book reader. I do always sleep with a book under my pillow, hoping to absorb some of their knowledge.

These are the only pics I can send. I hit browse, and I only have a few seconds to select a pic. If I scroll down further to select one, my time runs out. If I leave a comment with pics, to go to my gallery anf move a desirable pic to the top, I lose everything and have to start from scratch. Besides that, I have to turn off my phone's predictive text just so I can comment here. When PT is one every word I type dissapears when I start typing the next word. I don't understand why we should be subjected to such cruel torture??🥺

We are all with you on the houzz tech issues Jay.

This lovely thread gives me hope for mankind. Gardenerkind.

Totally love your garden, floral_uk. I wish mine looked that verdant, though I suppose that's not possibly during the dry, and currently blastingly hot, Italian summer. Though we're working on it. There's a good deal of shade in the yard, much of it from vines, and the musk rose, recently hoisted up onto a cobbled-together pergola, is refreshingly cool looking with its dark gray-green foliage and milk-white blooms.

I've been trying to find my own words in support of what many have been saying here: we thrive in an activity in which no one can tell us exactly what needs to be done. Gardens are so complex that there's no manual of instruction complete enough to meet every situation. WE have to figure out what works; WE become, with time, the world's greatest experts on our own gardens. There's a deep satisfaction in that.

Melissa, every word in your second paragraph resonates with me, and I imagine with just about everyone here. I don't know if you could find a more independent and individualistic group who are yet knit together by a common and very passionate love. No one criticizes and everyone is always ready to help and support. Yes, there is hope for mankind.

Ahhh, if only I could again start over, for sure I'd put a limit on the number and size of beds, certainly are not required everywhere the heart and eye desires, now I'm talking about a big chunk of acreage land I'm on! I've downsized or erased some out of necessity, others neglect, let me tell you, more is not always a good thing! We all must consider advancing age and declining health and energy levels ... though, seemingly it's no different than other collectables, we often can't help ourselves, especially when it comes to plant sales! The other day I hit Rona's clearance 75% off, eight clematis and two perennials came home, foolish! No, I'm not the type that feels I'm saving plants from their dumpster doom, I have the space and place to tuck these, now though, where did I stick that energy of mine!

Dee, I have a 40' x 10' steeply sloped bed that each year I intend shall be finished to my satisfaction, mmmm never happens, I have no imagination when it comes to rock gardens, this area should be a dramatic feature that I may only accomplish by means by a professional drawing plan and installation! Looking at it all today, the rudbeckia 'Sahara' and 'Caramel' helps save it from total blahness, maybe I should also get with planting more daises, are you talking about Shasta daises, if so I love these, 'Mt. Hood' is currently a favorite!

Rosa, the struggles, trials, tribulations, successes, your words and humor paint picture that I can almost envision seeing all for myself.

Jay, that's quite an array of natives, I especially love meadows and wetlands!

"... we often can't help ourselves, especially when it comes to plant sales!..."

Truer words were never spoken lol!

Yes, FB, I did mean Shasta daisies. My apologies, I was confusing threads and thought I had already mentioned those daisies. My daughter bought a house down the street two years ago and I put in a garden for her using stuff from mine. I tried to plan it out instead of just plopping things where there was room, and I planted things in patterns(?) along the border instead of single spots, and the daisies, which are spectacular this year to begin with, as well as some huge daylilies I also planted in this pattern, look so nice and cohesive and the garden looks pulled together instead of the mish-mash in my yard. So I am finally learning after 25 years haha. These daisies are so old I can't remember what they are, but probably just Becky or something common like that.

Now if I can apply all this to my (MUCH larger!) garden I will be happy. Of course it's always easier to start with a blank slate like at my daughter's as opposed to digging everything up and rearranging, but I guess that's at least 50% of what gardening is lol!

Good luck on your slope! I have gardens along my property line that are to me what your slope is to you. Slowly making progress but it's a journey, not a sprint, I guess!

:)

Dee

Reading Melissa's post did give me a little heartlift. I have avoided most gardening media, with all those improbable photos of perfection...because mine, and more worrying, none of my customers, ever looked like that. Of course they bloody didn't because our gardens are not 'living their best life' on an Instagram page. Anyway, I have had a few cold and damp days trying to refit a window in the horsebox at the wood but now I am back home, I am looking forward to getting on my bike and going to my allotment...where I am going to cut all the ivy and elder away from my shed and finally reclaim a window. Of course, the utter shambles will be only too visible...but only to me.

@rosaprimula, what species of elder are you reffering to? Aegopodium? Sambucus? I love learning your common names and the cultural stories behind them.

Sambucus, Jay. A dull beast with oddly deep cultural roots. There are a couple of sambucus I rather like (s.racemosa and it's varieties), but our drab (and frankly cat-pissy) s.nigra is not one of them...and certainly not when it has rudely inserted itself almost into my shed.

I rather like US common names too - a sort of folk language which always seems somewhat more hardscrabble and pioneering (pleurisy root, pokeweed, possumhaw, rattlesnake master, stammerwort, chokeberry) than our whimsical 'Kiss me over the garden gates' and 'love in the mists'.

@rosaprimula, hehe! I'm growing Sambucus canadensis/Sambucus nigra subsp. canadensis. They can provide a good privacy screen in 1 season. Their fast growth is amazing. We refer to it as elderberry or native elderberry. I want to grow racemosa. I tried germinating racemosa seeds a couple of years ago with no luck. We have a very rare Cardamine here going by the name of cukoo flower. I kind of prefer Lady's Smock myself. Over here we call Impatiens glandulifera Himalayan Jewelweed, and it looks nothing like an American policeman's hat. I just broke off a few stems from an unruly elder. I think the first colonists here must have had a problem with ticks, because so many common names have ticks in them. Beggarticks, tickseed. How our native Osmorhiza claytonii escaped a tick infused name baffles me. It gets away being called Sweet Cicely. Too many common names have false and bastard in them. It's not very descriptive. False sunflower, False Indigo, Bastard Toadflax. Clearly not toadflax and definately not a bastard. It's a bastard when it comes to trying to germinate it. A hemiparasitic. Ive tried germinating Dirty Fat Bastard Toadflax twice. Comandra umbellata. I long to grow it!

Just to address the question of space .... in the picture of my garden above, all the trees other than the weeping birch in the foreground are in three neighbouring gardens. The rose ’Goldfinch’ is on the shed roof. That’s how small my garden is.

Floral, pls say more about the ”tiny pond”

My garden is so tiny that I would never grow huge monster rose bushes. They take up way too much space and block out too much sun. The elderberries are just as bad. I was smitten with our native Rosa setigera, but thankfully someone talked me out of it. Setigera roots wherever the stems touch the ground. It is stunning though. Yes Marie, I also would love to see whats hiding underneath floral's behemoth rose bushes.😁

I have wanted a pond for ages and even have a gigantic planter with one plugable hole i could use. But to take on one more responsibility even goldfish or tiny -pond cleaning feels beyond my capacity.

OTOHit might renew my interest in the garden.

I have 2 tiny ponds - one at home and one at the allotment. Both started out as 350 litre black plastic tubs. The wildlife very much enjoy the little allotment pond, while I have 2 goldfish in my garden pond. The filter makes a delicious burbling noise which sounds like an oasis when I stand at the back door. It was the best thing I did last summer, although I am going to double the volume by extending the edges of my raised bed with concrete blocks and relining it all. I have a dwarf nymphaea and hesperantha. For a tiny outlay of £££ and effort, I feel my teeny urban garden was transformed. I don't think fish are necessary but I do very much like the sound of gurgling water and the little glints of watery light, viewed through the foliage. Go for it, Marie. I honestly don't think you will have a single regret.

CONTINUING OT- thank you all….

Had a fountain years ago but it kept clogging and it was a real imposition on my kind and patient husband who fixed it.

i know theres a million articles about fountains, but remind me: if i can top off the ”pond” from a hose and theres a recirculating pump , those are the basics, right? Power is a bit of a PITA as the grounded outlet or any outlet is yards away and my bright orange safety cord will need a deep burial in mulch. (watch me cut through it in a hurried distracted shovel exercise )

If i see one dragonfly on the pond Ill be a happy woman.However ive read they need a pretty big body of water to land.

We have an active raccoon population in the vicinity. it would be interesting to see their level of interest or interference in a paw washing basin. We evicted a mama and several babies a month ago from our attic; it was a nasty experence for all concerned.

Mine is just a tank filter which sits in the pond and sucks in water at the bottom and squirts it out through 4 or 5 holes in the top pipe - will try to find the brand (German but easily available). I do have an outside plug in a special plastic container to keep it dry. I am hopelessly untechnical but this wasn't at all beyond me to set up. It is all about the noise and watery sloshing. I had no idea how much I was going to enjoy it - I built it out of guilt and shame for the abandoned and aging fish (from offspring, obvs) which had sa in a corner of the kitchen for year, in a 180 litre tank for years.

I have a fine metal mesh cover (cos local cats and fishy tendencies to leap out), but it is just under the surface of the water in the middle so birds and insects can access the water. The allotment pond is a bit of a duckweed battle, but beloved by frogs.

My orange safety wire does run annoyingly across the path but I just ignore it.

Dee, I had Shasta 'Sunny Side Up' with it's bit of a nice tufted center, one I should again look for, some winters they can just up and be lost to my winters. The 'Real' series I well like, though would be nice to go back to some of the regular single forms similar to the very nice planting you have there, a shopping trip should soon be coming on before the nurseries begin to run low on seasons stock.

Re “daisies” the most stawart among the ”classy” ones is ”Becky” which really stayed clean and tall if a bit floppy on rich soil. ive had less luck with the all ”snow cap” and gold finch ones which will not overwinter with the slightest hint of wet feet. i dont like the squashed down midgety varieties which does limit my choices since plants are becoming more and more minaturuzed.

Shastas and feverfew can work for early season white but, as you probably know, can get weedy several weeks after they bloom.

Dee if you remember the name of that one please tell us. it could be “ Becky” but i cant tell how tall they are from the photo.

Oddly, I have never grown shasta daisies. Our common ox-eye is just about over but the anthemis and fleabanes are doing well. I have frequently struggled with later daisies though. How do you think shastas would cope with lean dry soil?

I will also say that white is gaining traction after buying a lovely white orpine as well as the umbellifers, so very interested to see if there is any future for shastas in my allotment garden.

Marie I will likely never know what daisy I have. It was literally one of the first plants I got for my garden over 25 years ago! Which is why I'm guessing Becky - a readily-available, common one that a beginning gardener would likely get lol.

The daisies in my garden are about 3.5 feet tall, I would guess. The same daisies in my daughter's garden are easily a foot taller at least, if not even taller. They stood up very well too - especially notable in my daughter's windier if sunnier garden - until the other day when we had a torrential rain. We've actually had a few torrential rains that they have withstood; I guess the latest was the last straw for her daisies lol. Mine are still standing though - perhaps less wind here made them more able to stand up to the rain.

I agree many/most plants are becoming smaller! Which is okay by me for the most part, except now when I'm beginning to look for larger shrubs for a privacy border and everything seems to be three feet tall haha.

Rosa I was never a fan of white for the most part but it is growing on me. I did always like white annuals (mostly impatiens) as edging in my shade beds - several of the gardens I maintained, as well as my own, are in lots of shade and I like the way the white defined the bed perimeters and made the gardens pop in the shade. I also like the way the white glows at dusk, although I have stopped short of putting in a white or "moon" bed. They may be beautiful at dusk but for me, still not exciting enough during the rest of the day!

FB thanks for those daisy suggestions. Daisies may be considered common but I do like them. I haven't added more because of my issues with oriental beetles. Oddly, my daylilies are overrun with them right now but they seem to have finally ignored my daisies for once, which is why I am so happy with the daisies this year. Maybe I'll try another variety. You are, after all, one of my main enablers here on GW lol!

:)

Dee

The tiny pond is a rectangle about 6ft x 3ft. It is fed by the shed gutter and is mostly overgrown with yellow flags and meadow sweet. It is home to frogs and bugs.

There is room for the rose because its root is next to the shed and the entire growth is ‘trained‘ on the shed roof, so it takes up no ground. Also on the shed roof are Clematis montana and ivy which supports a lot of wildlife.

The garden is shady and very green, so I have a lot of white and pale colours.

I am coming round to whites and paler colours too. I also have Goldfinch (and it's offspring, Ghislaine de Feligonde), although it is all tangled into a Pleine de Grace rambler and r.helenae (at the allotment). Never dared risk a montana (although I have a surprisingly rampant c.cirrhosa Ourika Valley (which, amazingly, I bought from Poundland). How big is your garden Floral? Mine is 4.5m wide and 9 m long but the greenhouse takes up almost a third of the entire space. Even a tiny garden can support a handful of (small) trees - a coral bark and Garnet Acer, plus a lilac and Concha ceonothus.

Which fuschia is that, Floral? I have admired it before and always meant to ask (I have a tiny microphylla fuschia and a horrible red and white one I had hoped was done for last winter, but nope, still alive.

This is turning into a totally rambling thread

floral_uk, how I'd love to be in your cool and shady garden right now. Those hydrangeas, oh my. The white ones look the most natural to me, although that seems silly to say since no one is running around spray painting the blues and pinks.

rosa primula, your fearless gardening style is very inspirational to me since I feel some trepidation in shoehorning in some very large roses into a very small space. It sounds ridiculous since I have almost two acres of land but most of it is steep and/or has no water available, and I want the roses close to the house and the window I gaze out of in the living room. I feel quite daring in engaging in this somewhat risky behavior, but it's not as though the gardening police are pounding on my door.

Hey Rosa, floral

Which of you wanted some callirohe bushii seeds? I can't remember...and I am gonna need your address to send (have a few..collecting more) and I can't DM you...so message me!

Floral_uk, again, I love your garden, which certainly doesn't have a lot of overlap with my garden. I would guess that fuchsias, which I love, are the ultimate summing up of plants I can't grow (well, fragrant deciduous azaleas). However, I have an abundance of plants I CAN grow, and am not inclined to complain. Your lilies are very fine!

Dee, you have enabled me in return with those lovely dramatic Shasta! Oddly enough, I'm also not big of white, but always drawn by the simple beauty of graceful white daises, something you can sprinkle all about rather like catmint and never is it too much! Just about picked up Shasta 'Sweet Daisy Jane' at HD ... but, at only 12 inches max, it's just too runty dwarf, as you and Marie have noted of many of the new perennial plant introductions.

The talk of ponds has me missing the waterlilies I once grew in abundance, actually for a few years I was did wholesale potted waterlilies to several greenhouses. For those desiring an adaptable compact grower ideal for tubs and small pond, 'Laydekeri Fulgens' pretty well cannot be beat! Photo from my garden

Rosa, my garden is about the same size as yours but perhaps slightly shorter. Typical urban patch. The Fuchsia is Mrs W. P. Wood which I got as a cutting from a workmate years ago. There is a weeping Birch and a Hibiscus syriacus Red Heart, but a medlar, a Golden Hornet crab and a Sorbus vilmorinii have all been removed after we enjoyed them for a couple of decades each. The garden was becoming a sunless pit.

I am pretty sure it was me, Danny. I have finally managed to germinate some c.involucrata (what a lovely plant this is) and would love, love,love to try c.bushii. For such a garden-worthy plant, I am astonished that it is not to be found in any UK nursery. I have emailed a couple of the better and more adventurous ones, offering them seeds as soon as mine are of flowering size.

How do I message you, Danny? And can I help with postage and packing in any way - I would rather you were not left out of pocket...or maybe I could send you something interesting from my ends?

O Floral, I love all the sorbus...and vilmorinii possibly most of all. I have anther pink-berried rowan (s.hupehensis) as well as the white-berried s cashmeriana) at the allotment. It is astonishing what you can grow in a tiny space. Thanks for letting me know the name of the fuchsia - will keep a look-out as it really is elegant.

It's not even too common in the native trade here. And it (and involucrata, which tends to crawl over the ground) are my two favorites of that genus. Bushii of course has the nicer habit, unless you want to crawl :)

Well, you could send me a PM through gardenweb. I really would prefer not to put contact info openly here (spam). I will respond within a day (at least generally) so if you don't hear back..well you didn't do whatever voodoo to enable messaging (I did this years ago..no real clue to how to now).

Groan. FB now you're going to make me go get a pond haha. Actually one year I did try a little water garden in a metal tub. It failed pretty miserably. But those waterlilies are so beautiful.

There are two areas in particular around here that have spectacular waterlily displays. One is a pond next to a house, in the bend of a road. It always amazes me that there aren't more fender-benders there lol, as I'm sure when people come around the bend they must be absolutely taken aback by the HUGE display of lilies. It's just breath-taking.

Not quite so big or dramatic is an old reservoir near me. The road cuts across one end of it and makes a little pond that has a good-sized area full of waterlilies. Not nearly as breathtaking but still pretty - and equally as risky roadwise lol, as one is literally driving over a stretch of road with water on either side, almost right up to the roadside. Can't be distracted driving there!

:)

Dee

KW, I was sorry to hear about Cass Turnbull. I heard her speak once some years ago, and her talk was as informative and humorous as her book.

@Rosefolly I’m sorry to say that I discovered Cass’s wonderful book shortly after she died. I lived in Seattle area & attended their huge annual garden show but never had the opportunity to hear her speak. I do know from reading tributes that she was well loved and cherished by the Seattle gardening community. My understanding is that she was vacationing in HI and suffered a fatal heart attack January 2017. I don’t know if she had known health issues but I do believe she was still very actively involved and working with Plant Amnesty. There is now a Cass Turnbull memorial garden on Capitol Hill in Seattle & Plant Amnesty which Cass founded is now an international organization. Quite the legacy!

KW, I agree, quite the legacy!

She came to the SF Bay Area to speak some time ago (2009? 2010?) and that is when I heard her speak. It is also when I bought her book. Maybe a book tour? I no longer remember.