St. Augustine Struggles in SoCal
@dchall_san_antonio i remember reading a post that you made about a decade ago on gardenweb and have been watering once a week deeply since then. But this part with the interval modifications according to temp is new to me:
”With temps in the 60s or lower, deep water once a month. With temps in the 70s, water once every 3 weeks. With temps in the 80s, water every 2 weeks. With temps in the 90s, water once per week. With temps above 100, water once every 5 days. With temps higher than 110, deep water every 3-4 days. Note that you NEVER water daily.“
It makes sense, but I worry that my SA grass in inland Los Angeles may find it hard to go more than 2 weeks without water.
I’m currently fighting black clover in alot of places and really splotchy and uneven grass on an incline in the front yard. I’ve been dealing with the splotchy SA for awhile, but the black clover is new this year and in many SA lawns in the community. I can see the black clover targeting the weak parts of my lawn(short SA that won’t grow tall and the splotchy section mentioned previously).
Any advice would be appreciated. I’m thinking of:
1. Picking up some small alfalfa pellets to distribute and have some milorganite in the garage.
2. Change my sprinkler bodies from 4” to 6” rainbirds to get the water better distributed
3. Change my sprinkler heads from rainbird dual spout to the hunter ones that I had previously
4. Aerate the low height SA section where the SA won’t grow tall - the postman and my family are often walking on that section
I’ll add some images when i get home.
Splotchy area
Splotchy closeup
Stunted SA with darker green black clover invaders
Black clover closeup
Comments (13)
Jay Bo
10 months ago
dchall_san_antonio
10 months agoWhere in East LA are you? As far as Pomona? Because things change a little bit when you go over the hills east of West Covina. It's warmer and less humid starting at Pomona. What have the temps been for you this past month?
Both sizes of alfalfa pellets are great. Now shop for price. I think neither one will go through a normal lawn type fertilizer spreader although 1/32 is pretty small. Mine are 3/8" and don't come close to falling evenly through a broadcast spreader. The application rate is the same for either size, because it goes on by the pound. I use a 2-pound coffee can to carry a load (about 2 pounds) to the yard and then guestimate how much a 10-ft by 10-ft (100 square feet) area is. Then I throw all 2 pounds of stuff inside that guestimated area using my hands to toss it out. So the rate is 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Since it comes in 50-pound bags, one bag will cover about 2,500 square feet. If you over apply, no problem for the grass, but you would need to get more stuff. When I'm finished with the application, I water it very lightly just enough to moisten all the pellets. They will absorb the moisture, swell into a larger worm shape, and sit on top of the grass. Then I come by with a hose the next day to drag it over the green alfalfa worms. That knocks the alfalfa flakes down into the turf where it goes to work.
The weed you're looking at is either black medic or oxalis. I get them mixed up because I don't really care what their common names are. All I want is the solution for St Augustine. Unfortunately I don't think you can buy the easy solution in California, but the easy one is any herbicide with atrazine in it. Here's the one I use.
This stuff works like a miracle in St Augustine. It kills all the weeds and all the weed seeds leaving nothing to return next season. It kills most of the grassy weeds with the exceptions of dallis grass and bermuda grass. Again, not available in CA because atrazine is really bad stuff. I believe CA has banned it since the 60s or 70s.
Otherwise I would suggest using Weed-b-Gon Chickweed, Clover, and Oxalis Killer if you can get that there. But know that it is not particularly beneficial to St Augustine.
Just be careful and use pieces of cardboard to shield the St Augustine from the spray when you spray it on the "clover". Also know that these herbicides don't necessarily kill weed seeds which might already be sitting on the soil. Watch for new growth of the weed and spray it quickly before you see the yellow flowers.
As for watering, for a rectangular lawn where wind is not a factor, an oscillating sprinkler will give you a more reliable pattern of water than a rainbird type any day of the year. If you already have a system in the ground, do what you can to get an even distribution and not squirt all the water over top of the grass to the perimeter of the spray circle.
Mowing: Reset your mower to the highest position. St Augustine should always be mowed at 4 inches if you can, or even higher if you can. The tall grass promotes a deep root structure which can gather moisture from much deeper in the soil.
There's one more step you can take to make the soil suck up water better. Spray the yard with shampoo at a rate of at least 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. You can go up to 30 or 60 ounces per 1,000 but 3 ounces is usually fine. Going higher will not hurt anything. Use any clear shampoo that you like the fragrance of. A friend of mine gets the apple scented stuff from Dollar Tree. If you have 1000 square feet to spray, put 3 ounces into a hose end sprayer and fill the bottle, carefully, with water. Then spray it all out onto the yard, at any sprayer setting, until it is gone trying to cover the entire area. Shampoo works by allowing moisture so sink into the soil much more quickly and more deeply. This sets up the perfect environment for the beneficial fungi in the soil to open it up to breathe. You might think that dish washing soap would work, but it has antibacterial agents in it that actually harm the beneficial microbes. Three full weeks after spraying you should notice that when you irrigate the soil will be softer afterwards. OH! Wait! First do this test on your soil. Stab a screwdriver into the soil before you do the shampoo. Try it dry and try it wet. Get a feel for how hard it is to stick into the soil and how deep you can penetrate. Then, after 3 weeks, do the screwdriver test again dry and wet soil. This test is not quantitative, but it give you an idea of whether the shampoo worked. Repeat if you want it softer.
As a reminder, where do you live and what have your temps been for the past month?
Jay Bo thanked dchall_san_antonioRelated Discussions
St. Augustine Height
Comments (27)Bruce, Have you ever used compost recently? you can't expect quick result from soybean meal. It might take 3 weeks for it to work and it won't be dramatic green up like you'd get from synthetic fertilizer. The point of organic lawn program is to improve soil (nutrient cycling), more disease resistant, keep harmful insects under control and it goes on. You just have to be patient. It could take several years to get to the optimal level. Synthetic pre-em can disrupt nutrient cycling by killing protozoa and nematodes. They act like fertilizer spreader by eating bacteria and fungi releasing nitrogen and other nutrients. You might have to spread good quality of compost at the rate of 1 cubic yard per 1000 sqft to re-introduce fungi, nematodes, protozoa and bacteria into the soil to get the ball rolling. Basically light dusting on the lawn and just water them in. All you have to do is apply soybean meal at the rate of 15-20lbs per 1000 sqft every 3 months to keep feeding the microbes in the soil to continue and improve the soil. Soybean meal is fungi meal. It has good amount of protein that will be used to fertilize lawn, trees, etc. Synthetic fertilizer has salts that can ruin microbes in the soil. it's like pouring salt on snail. The spray application I came up with will greatly help for the first few years to improve nutrient cycling. They are food for microbes in the soil. Molasses is basically food for bacteria. Fish hydrolysate and Seaweed liquid are fungi food. I think the biggest problem is that we lack enough fungi in the soil. it is very easy to grow large bacterial population in the soil but not fungi. It just takes time. Over time, you will notice that you will water significantly less frequently because of larger fungi population. They are like sponge with all the holes in the ground. They will be able to absorb more water and hold them longer rather than letting them drain away. I've routinely gone 10-14 days before I've had to water again during the summer if there's no rain. And that's on rocky soil. I can imagine that I'd go 2-3 weeks easily if I had lived on clay based topsoil since they hold more water. A book called 'Teaming with Microbes' by Jeff Lowenfels is a good book to learn about organic practice. It's just not for lawn but how to maintain trees, garden, etc. They have different needs....See MoreSt. Augustine Grass Help!!
Comments (5)That is weird that all over the net nobody recognizes fungal disease in St Aug. The first and last pictures show it crystal clear with the lesions running up and down the brown tipped blades. I have had rousing success fighting fungal disease with ordinary corn meal applied at 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Call your local feed stores to check availability. The cost should be well under $10. They might think you want corn gluten meal. You don't. The difference in price will tell you they are selling you the wrong product. CGM sells for roughly $30 per bag. When corn meal decomposes it attracts a fungus which attracts a predatory fungus causing the predator to over populate. Once the initial host fungus is gone, the predator goes after the disease fungus. Your alternative is to use chemicals. I can't help you with that. I've never needed them. But if you use chemicals first, then you cannot come back and try the corn meal later. The chemicals will kill off the predatory fungus from the soil. Try the corn meal first. If, after 3 weeks you don't like the results, either apply the corn meal again or try chemicals. Corn meal was the only thing that worked for me and was good enough to convince me to go full organic with my fertilizer. If you are happy with the corn meal after 3 weeks, you might just use it every month this summer to make sure you got it all. Corn meal is an organic fertilizer, so apply to the entire yard. Otherwise as the grass comes in over the dead areas, it would be much darker green. Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall....See MoreWeeds taking over St Augustine again
Comments (3)When you mow sedge it leave very rigid stems that poke into your bare feet. They don't stab into you, but they are uncomfortable. If you have a clay like layer under the sand, then your neighbor's daily watering could be running off of his property onto yours. The neighbor's lawn could look fine, but it is what I would call fragile. Since the grass gets nearly continual water the roots do not have to grow long down into the soil. If one of his sprinklers breaks and turns into a geyser, that will cause the rest of the sprinklers to not apply enough water. The shallow roots will not be able to get water and the grass could quickly die or go dormant, depending on the grass. Whereas if you water deeply once a month in the cool months and once a week in the heat of summer, that forces the roots to grow down deep to get to the water. If your sprinklers break the grass will still be getting some moisture from the deep roots. Your objective is to get roots growing into the clay like layer to loosen it up. The shampoo should help with that along with deep watering. Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall....See MoreHow to improve St Augustine dead areas?
Comments (3)" what ...would you guys recommend? " (cough) A decent soil test (/cough) But seriously, we'll let that one ride for this year, it's good enough, I suppose (I'm not a fan of abbreviated tests that don't give a complete report, and absolutely never a fan of any test that even bothers to report nitrogen, which varies by time of day, moisture in the soil, temperature of the soil, and so on). At the very least, your pH looks, off the cuff, to be consistent with calcium and magnesium levels, which is more than I can say for some tests I've seen. I'm not a hundred percent happy with your Ca:Mg:K balance, but it's certainly workable and I'm disinclined to fiddle without much better data. For right now? It's spring in S. Texas, yes? Let's see if we can attract a southern grass person to give you a good, solid recommendation--and I do mean a southern grass expert, not just a stand-in to give you book larnin'. That's very nice, but it's not tuned to your particular weather and projected spring forecast. I know what I should say, but I'm not directly familiar with exactly what's happening in your neck of the woods right now. It's 44 and raining right now where I'm sitting. If it goes a couple days, bounce this message and I'll give you a gentle recommendation....See MoreJay Bo
10 months agolast modified: 10 months agoJay Bo
10 months agoJay Bo
10 months agodchall_san_antonio
10 months agoThe splotchy area should fill in. With temps in the 70s and 80s, St Augustine usually takes off sending out runners like this. Notice the splotchy appearance - this is a St Augustine farm.
I've seen it grow up to 15 feet in all directions with about half in the spring and half in the fall. With your cooler temps it might spread over more of the growing season.
A possible reason the grass is not thriving in those conditions is the health of the soil. The alfalfa and shampoo should clear that up.
For herbicides I probably should use PPE, but I just follow the directions. First is to figure out which way the wind is blowing. That's easy when you live in Covina, but there might be swirling gusts that you don't want to blow products on you. Assuming you know the wind direction, lay the hose out so you can walk backwards into unsprayed areas with the wind at your back. Spot spray only the weeds. Wear shoes that keep the spray off your bare feet.Watch the weather. It looks like you're getting a high pressure system that will really warm things up for you. If you get Santa Ana winds, I'd wait until they go away before spraying anything.
Covina - that's what I meant, not West Covina. It's hard to tell the boundaries once you get west of the hills. When I was at Cal Poly (1970s) it seems like there were horses all over Covina and feed stores everywhere, but not so much any more. Here is a list and none of them are particularly nearby.
Yorba Linda Feed Store
Kruse Feed & Supply
Whittier Narrows Feed
Cantrell's Feed Bin (Store)
Call first to get price and availability. They might ask you what you are feeding or why you want the pellets. Tell them you're feeding the lawn, and they won't ask any more questions ;-)
Jay Bo thanked dchall_san_antonio
Ariel Rodriguez
10 months agoI got this from my local store. They are 1/4.
Don't have to be this brand.
Jay Bo thanked Ariel RodriguezJay Bo
10 months agoJay Bo
10 months agoHere is the alfalfa pellet that i purchased - the worker said 1/32” but they are actually 5/32” - so no chance that they will get through the drop spreader. I think the smaller size spreads more evenly.
I put down about 30 lbs with 12 lbs of milorganite today after mowing the lawn on the highest height. It didn’t cut anything in the stunted section but i hope that changes in a few months or a year.
I waited on using the herbicides since it’s a little windy. Will it harm bushes or flower plants?
Jay Bo
10 months agodchall_san_antonio
10 months ago
dchall_san_antonio