Scott, some of the things you say confuse me. If you are tasting your apples, what are you looking for? Here's what I look for: A bittersweet will be totally bitter and totally sweet, without any acidity whatsoever. A bittersharp will be totally bitter and acidic, but the sugar content can be all over the map here. So it's more like a culinary or dessert apple with lots of bitterness that you can't taste until the bitter compounds hit the back of your mouth and throat. I think pure bitters are essentially non-existent. A sweet will be essentially sugar, without any acidity, e.g. essentially tannin free. Eating one is a rather odd experience, it's like eating an acidless lime or acidless orange, like sugar water. A sharp is your average culinary and dessert apple. Even Golden delicious falls into the sharp category. The whole point of these categorizations is so that I can combine the proper ratios of sweet to sharp, to bitter. (the latter usually about 10%) So regarding bittersweets, it means you don't want any "sharp" component to it. If you taste a good bittersweet, it will taste bitter and sweet, with no acidity. I have not heard of apples loosing their bitterness as a result of high heat, but I suppose that's possible. I would expect that they will just have a higher sugar content, that's all, and you will therefore need to reduce the amount of pure sweets you add to your cider batches. So now that we have the technical details out of the way, I highly recommend "Amere de Berthecourt", it's a bittersweet apple, incredibly prolific and vigorous fantastic bittersweet in the purest sense - e.g. there isn't a trace of sharpness in it. I grow it here in California and it's got plenty of bitter tannins in it. You bite into it, and you think at first it's totally bland, until the bitter tannins hit the back of your mouth, at which point it's very difficult to actually swallow. This is the effect that you want. This apple originates from Maine-et-Loire, France and it is available in the US. The french selections are infinitely superior to the British apples, mainly because they have been selected for their precociousness. Kingston Black is pretty much a wild apple, it's not worthy as a cider apple because it is such a shy bearer. If you were making cider commercially, you'd go broke if you tried to grow kingston black. A few notes on heat: heat doesn't necessarily increase the sugar contents in apples - usually the onset of Winter cold does a much better job at drawing the sugars into the apples. So if you're trying to increase the bitterness content to add the "body" to the cider, then heat is in your favor because it will keep the sugars from building too high, that is, as long as the variety in question isn't heat sensitive - e.g. it doesn't go mealy from hot weather. The trouble with some British apples is that they do go mealy from heat exposure. Amere de B. is an early apple, so it will ripen when it's still warm out, and therefore not draw the sugars as much. And it appears to be very heat resistant, e.g. it doesn't go mealy. Now here's an interesting note on tannins: my understanding of tannins is that tannins contribute all sorts of flavors, not just bitters. So you can have a high level of tannins yet have no bitterness at all. What is strange is that the technical classifications according to Barker's Classification of Cider Apples (LARS 1903) is as follows: Sharp Acid More than 0.45% Tannin less than 0.2% Bittersharp Acid more than 0.45% Tannin more than 0.2% Bittersweet Acid less than 0.45% Tannin more than 0.2% Sweet Acid less than 0.45% Tannin less than Yet you take an apple like "Amere de Berthecourt" which is clearly a bittersweet, you have BRIX 15.0 Acid 0.23% PH 4.08 Tannin 0.169% Average weight per apple: 82g So it's low on acidity, yet the tannin levels are still below 0.2%. According to the classification, it would be a sweet, but it's actually a bittersweet, I've tasted it, it's definitely very bitter. Then take Taylor's sweet, it has a malic acid content of 0.18% but the tannins are close to Amere de B at 0.14%. What I am trying to say with this is that the bitterness is not necessarily correlated to the tannin contents, and that bitterness is likely to not be affected by heat, it's only the amount of sugar and malic acid that changes as a function of heat, thus making it seem that an apple might have more or less tannins. I've attached a link for Cider apple compositional data. But I don't think the data is all that helpful in determining which one has the highest bitterness tannins, because the measurement is for tannins as a whole, not just those tannins that contribute to bitterness. Here is a link that might be useful: Cider Apple Compositional Data

hhh, I can give you a little insight on Thamno. Tessellatus as I grow this variety in 7a (SE VA). Your climate doesn't look as severe as mine (per weather underground) so I think you can grow this type with the right siting. The biggest difference being you might need a little more protection during the winter. Note that I wouldn't recommend this type if you're an absentee gardener (unless a water timer is used). They need to be watered and fertilized regularly in the spring/summer to stay strong and beat the heat. My climate >> Summer temps are 85~95 F during the day, 70~75F at night, relatively high humidity most of the time. As for sun exposure, my most exposed plants get 6~8 hrs of direct morning sun with dappled afternoon shade. My hunch is that a full afternoon of southern sun may be too much due to its strength (just speculation). Also my soil is pretty sandy so drainage is good, no standing water. WRT to your question about water/humidity, the key is to view the plant as living in two environments, one above ground (influenced by humidity) and one below ground (influenced by water/moisture levels). In the PNW, summer temperatures don't get as high as in the SE. Warmer air can hold larger amounts of water vapor (humidity) than cooler air. So while plants in the PNW see moderate humidity during the summer (along with high avg rainfall), plants in the SE are swimming in humidity and have to deal with only moderate rainfall (or none like last year). The native habitats of many of the mountain bamboos have similar environments to that of the PNW, so they grow well. But we can do it too :) If you end up getting a TT and have any specific questions, let me know.

Yes, you sure can. I grow the following in (Canadian) zone 3: P. albidus, confertus, digitalis 'Husker Red', hallii (in alpine trough), mexicali 'Red Rocks' (it is hardy here, or hardy enough at least), barbatus coccineus (?) 'Prairie Fire', fruticosus 'Purple Haze', gracilis, lyallii, menzeisii, nitidus, sp. "Petite Bouquet", 'Prairie Dusk'. A lot of these are native plants; some are garden varieties, and no doubt, there are other hardy species that I just haven't run into yet. Well, I may have revised my favorite to P. nitidus; here they are from a few weeks ago, almost done blooming now:

Most fig enthusiasts agree that Celeste is one of the best tasting figs, if not the best tasting fig. The major issue in this thread, in my view, is whether there is any significant difference in Celeste and the majority of the figs shipped and sold by TyTy as "Tennessee Mountain Fig". The overall consensus seems to be that the figs are one and the same. I suppose I can understand a marketer renaming a fig in order to generate excitement (Nero Caesar, Tennessee Mountain, White Italian, Patrick's Supergiant). Most of the fig varieties listed by Condit have multiple names and some have dozens! The names are often evocative of the history of the figs and tell a tale of the convoluted journeys they have taken. As enthusiasts, however, it is very useful to have names that we all recognize. At times, there are still surprises. For example, a few years ago, DNA testing revealed that Vista Mission and Violet de Bordeaux were one and the same. An examination of the leaves and fruit of the two varieties in my collection verified the finding. A couple of final notes on Celeste: Although it is a great-tasting fig and a "must have" in a collection, as a commercial fig, its small size is a real drawback. A larger fig, such as an Adriatic, is more efficient when making preserves or when picking fresh figs to sell or share with your neighbors. Also, in my opinion, the key to avoiding fig drop in Celeste and other varieties is to be sure that the tree is adequately watered. Shade is not the best solution. The tree will survive, but fruit production will suffer. The application of well-composted manure just prior to the growing season is also helpful in improving fruit production.