Is it necessary to remove old grass before topsoil and reseeding?
Ruby Bahian
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
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Ruby Bahian
3 years agoRuby Bahian
3 years agoRelated Discussions
Re-seeding a new lawn. Help!
Comments (10)1. On aeration, we have had a few landscapers come out, and they all say the soil is compacted enough to require aeration. That said, if we don't do aeration, how would you recommend putting down the seed? I assume we wouldn't just drop the seed on the existing lawn? Again, from what info you have given, it is unlikely you have compacted soil. For aeration to be a truly successful remedy of compaction, it should result in a minimum of 20 holes per sq ft. and at depths 4" or greater. I know of no landscaper that has that type of equipment--the type golf courses have. As aeration is messy and expensive, I only use it when I can combine it with other processes like topdressing, adding gypsum, fertilizing, etc. Seeding is not one of those processes. Although seed does seem to germinate well on the aeration hole edges, the seeds that fall into the deep holes do not and are wasted. Seed does germinate better when the soil surface is broken, but many have very good results just seeding over bare ground followed by rolling or a thin layer of peat moss. If your bare spots are not too large or numerous, light raking of the soil is fine. I get best results with KBG by broadcasting seed and then running a slit seeder over it. Just dropping seed over the existing lawn is common and called overseeding. 2. We just had a weed control and fertilizer application put down yesterday. So I am assuming we would need to wait a couple of weeks before we do the overseeding? Is mid Sep soon enough for a mix of Rye and KBG? I have not used Q4 specifically. Weed B Gone Max contains a similar AI cocktail as Q4 and Ortho recommends that overseeding not be done sooner than 4 weeks after application. As far as seeding is concerned: late summer is preferred as temperatures are beginning to subside, weed pressure is at a minimum and torrential rains are less common. Temps that do not fall below 50 F at night and that rarely exceed 80 F during the day are ideal for cool season grass establishment. No weed pressure removes the problems of feeding and watering the turf without feeding and watering a crop of competing weeds. Cool season grasses need to be planted early enough before soil temperatures fall below 50-55F--when grass plant growth slows or stops-- so that there is enough time for germination and subsequent plant growth so a root system develops and top growth has the chance to harden off--usually about the time of the third mowing. This time frame is dependent on region and the whims of Mother Nature--there is no hard and fast rule. 3. Thanks for the comparative comments. Any thoughts on Tall and Fine Fescue? Our original seeding as it turns out was a mix of KBG, Perennial Rye and Fine Fescue (roughly 1/3 each). Lol. Yes I have "thoughts", but they are just my opinion. All cool season grasses have advantages and disadvantages. Fine fescue is one of the few grasses that will grow in shadier areas, but does not hold up well in traffic. Rye and TTTF can make nice lawns, but they do not spread and self repair and require occasional overseeding to maintain thickness. My preference is KBG. If you can grow KBG, that is my recommendation. It makes a beautiful blanket lawn and after the third year, it is self repairing. I wont list the reasons I find it superior, but they are many, but choice of turf is subjective in many ways. 4. Yes typo on my part ��" I meant lb per 1000 sqft of course (otherwise that would be one heck of a seed bill!) Are there any commercially available mix of seeds that you know of that could work? I thought it was a typo, but better safe than sorry. You could check NTEP for the individual turf grass names in commercial bags to see what each type's individual characteristics are. What you definitely want is a bag labeled as containing 0% weeds. Better yet, 0% other crop seeds....See MorePaul Tukey Book Reseeding Question
Comments (12)The only reason thatch builds up in a lawn dep enough to cause problems is because there is not enough of the Soil Food Web to digest what thatch there is, and that is most often because of lack of organic matter in the soil as well as using "stuff" that poisons the soil, synthetic fertilziers, "weed" killers, and many of the turf pest controls. Our sandy soils need lots of organic matter, stuff that will help hold both moisture and nutrients in the soil instead of having them flow out with the water. "Topsoil" does not replace organic matter and for many of us any "topsoil" we get will simply be sand with some organic matter added, unless the seller scrapes it off some new development. Start making that lawn better by adding more organic matter which will get the Soil Food Web functioning which will then digest the thatch. Whether any Kentucky Blue Grass needs more water then any other grass depends on which cultivar, and there are about 100 now, you get, but most often you will find that a blend of Kentucky Blue Grass, Perennial Rye, and Fine Fescues is the predominant mix sold in Michigan. However, that mix does need a very good, healthy soil to grow, unless you want to spend a ton of money on fertilizers and pest and "weed" controls, because that lush green growth that is forced is simply unable to fight off those things and with little or no organic matter in the soil to hold both moisture and nutrients you will need to keep dumping them on, at great expense. Start your lawn rejuvination program by applying compost, about 1/2 inch at most at any one application. There are expensive products you can buy that will do the same thing, kind of, and "Ringers Lawn Restore" is one. Made from the waste of poultry production it will do wonders on sandy soil, at great expense (As I Recall it is around $25.00 per 2,500 square feet). Mow high, the more grass blade exposed to the sun the more nutrients those grass blades will manufacture to feed the grass crowns and roots which will cause the plant to send out more stolens, tillers, and roots to grow more grass plants. Mulch mow, this will supply organic matter to the soil as well as 1/2 the needed Nitrogen annually. Turfgrasses need about 2 pounds of Nitrogen per 1,000 square feet per year to grow well. Water as needed, many "authorities" will tell you that lawns need an inch of water per week, but in sandy soils that can be, depending on the weather, twice that unless you live someplace with an extremely high water table with the water just below the soils surface....See MoreRemoving dead grass/debris after light tilling?
Comments (17)gardengal said, "One of the things I find rather disturbing about this forum is the uniform application of very generalized lawn care practices for any location." I could say that about every lawn care forum with very few exceptions. I would say that 10x over about every university lawn care website and every single lawn care expert on YouTube ever. Even the Scott's website is guilty. One of the things I like about the forum format is that we can adapt as we learn from folks like gardengal, and that guy from Phoenix, and those guys from Upstate NY and Eastern PA and Tampa, etc. We just don't get that many PNW folks with problems to learn from. I think I have learned that spring is a perfectly fine time for seeding there for a couple reasons. One is they don't have the summer heat factor, and the other is they don't seem to have the crabgrass pressure we see in most of the rest of the country. Some of the New England states have similar conditions as does the far upper Midwest. This is why it is monumentally important to understand the location of the OP from the git-go. On another forum I participate in, before they launched I insisted that users could not register without stating their location. This works except for the few who say, 'Midwest,' or 'Zone 6,' or some other vague reference. It allows the repliers to tailor their replies to the situation without having to ask the necessary questions. I am also interested in the answer to danielj's question....See MoreLandscape front entry (before neighbour installs artificial grass)
Comments (24)Apparently your neighbor's irrigation system is working and yours is not :-) Kidding aside, your grass looks like it needs just generally better care ... watering, edging, dethatching, etc.... and eventually, more light as the tree grows. That is so cool to have the barcodes on the neighbor's edge restraint. Will be a great way to help future archeologists in your area research people of our time. :-) Meanwhile, I'd slap a brick/paver mowing strip along that edge, matching its height, and then feather the grade on your side, by adding a little topsoil, to the top of the mowing strip. The grass will easily grow through it to the new height. When you do the drive, widen/flare it enough at the street to meet where the curb becomes full height. I don't have an objection to stamped concrete as long as the installer is well qualified. (Too many novices have to cut their teeth somewhere and need to be avoided.) Example. "I tend to like the look of light driveways with darker borders as well." That's going to make the prettier driveways harder to recognize! :-) Having more experience with pavers, I can't speak knowledgeably of fading issues of stamped concrete. Maybe someone who has more experience with it will know and can chime in. I once did a commercial patio where they were trying to cut the budget. We ended up with UNCOLORED stamped concrete. It was surrounded by a 12" wide plain border and the field was stamped with basketweave brick. It was quite handsome and vastly dressier than plain, unadorned concrete. A side benefit was that there would never be issues with chipping either (which if you've seen stamped concrete that has had a fair amount of chipping or surface wear, it can bring the look down.)...See MoreRuby Bahian
3 years agodchall_san_antonio
3 years agogardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
3 years agodchall_san_antonio
3 years agolindac92
3 years agoRuby Bahian
3 years agogardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
3 years agodchall_san_antonio
3 years ago
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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)