@katob TheRed Sapphire which I ordered on line seven or eight years ago is now four inches tall and it bloomed for the first time last spring. Meanwhile, the Cotton Candy which came in the same order is fourteen inches tall and flowers profusely. They are planted side by side. Thus the Winter Jewels strain is one of the reasons I only buy gallon sized plants while in bloom LOL. There's also a Lady in Red which is three or four inches tall after a decade and has never bloomed :(

Congratulations on your good success with Winter Jewels series hellebores, I envy you.

Oh gosh, that's ridiculous! I wonder if you just got a pair of runts. I'd love to be able to buy gallon size plants too, but up until the last two or three years they just haven't made it to my local nurseries. It's been getting better though, even if the people I've talked to say they don't sell well because the flowers open way before the bulk of their customers start coming by.

"Winter Jewels is kind of the pioneering seed strain which first had hellebores coming true to type from seed"

I think this may be a somewhat confusing or misleading statement :-) Regardless of seed strain, there is NO guarantee that the seedlings will be true to type. And that is because they are ALL hybrids so genetic differences - primarily relating to color - are always able to emerge. The seedlings could resemble the parent and very likely some will but they are also just as likely to emerge with a completely different flower color.

It ls very similar to growing the seeds of a named form of Japanese maple. Some of the seedlings produced may look very similar to the parent but most will not. This is why named forms of any hybrid plants are only propagated vegetatively/asexually to maintain the characteristics that make them distinct.

Maybe I should have said what I already have....

I had to look them up on my list. Evidently I bought some Tera Nova plugs back in 2009, that's how long I've had them. They make a decent showing now, but it took about 3 years to flower. I had 'Jade Tiger', 'Berry Swirl', 'Golden Lotus' and 'Yellow Mellow'. Then I bought some at a local plant sale that were in the Sunshine Selections and the 'Ivory Prince'. I don't know what happened to the Golden Lotus or Yellow Mellow. I don't see a real yellow, some of mine look like cream.

The dark one is NOID from a local sale and it's only about 2 years old and looks as good as some of those I've had for a lot longer. Pretty sure it was a good size division. Not sure what the white double is behind it.

So, I think I'd like to add more dark, more white and more deep rose or red and some yellow. I saw 'Sparkling Diamond' that was a pretty white yesterday. And the New York Night and Dark and Handsome are probably the two dark I'll try to get.

Does anyone have a nice red or rose or a yellow that they like?

Are you thinking similar or are you looking for a contrast? I love those picotee yellows, and some clear yellow or red would look nice with it... unless you're thinking something totally different. I have a group of seedlings with a similar look, I was thinking of putting a few clear yellows alongside. These don't have that inner flare yours is showing, but I bought 'Solar Flare' last spring and I'm hoping to see it this spring!

Now that one looks a lot like the one I have, Katob, in that first photo. I'm not sure of the name of it but it was one of the Tera Nova plugs. I love that one. And yes, I was forgetting that is one of the yellows. I'm going to try to find something that is even more yellow. [g]

GG- I get what you're saying, but the strains mentioned and all the named forms in them are produced as seedlings. They had better reproduce somewhat true to form or else these would be quite a few upset buyers. Perhaps the term "strain" is misleading. All the individual colors within the strains are their own breeding line. A double pink strain is the product of a long line of double pinks and even if it's lumped into a 'Winter Jewels' "strain" with a bunch of other doubles, it's likely to not be related at all to say a double yellow.

Maybe the confusion comes from referring to a marketing strain as being the same thing as a breeding strain. You can keep a specific color/form breeding strain coming true, but as soon as it starts crossing with others in that marketing strain anything is possible.

"You can keep a specific color/form breeding strain coming true"

No, you can't :-) Or not 100%, even in closely controlled breeding programs. It is genetically impossible, even without the threat of cross pollination. If you look at a grouping of seedlings of WJ's 'Golden Sunrise' strain, each is unique in appearance although they look roughly similar. The intensity of the yellow will vary from a pale creamy peach to a deep yellow, they may be a solid color or have a picotee edge, a center red splash, spotting or veining. Individuals will not be identical to the mother plant, although they may look a lot like her.

Or maybe it comes down to a broader interpretation of what coming "true" from seed means :-) For that reason, I will only purchase xhybridus forms when in bloom so I can be assured of exactly what the flowers will look like. Otherwise, it is just a toss up.

I just found a photo of another Hellebore that looks like a yellow..... this one was moved here 2 years ago and is just getting established. Looking forward to what it might do this year.

Look at this photo I just found....why do my Hellebores never look this full and vigorous?

Is this more than one plant? Do they like more sandy soil than clay? Isn't that gorgeous! lol Can't wait for spring.

Katob - I spent some time looking at Walter's and realized I'd really like a solid yellow. They have this one called 'California Dreaming'

Prairiemoon for some reason your pictures didn't load for me before, you have some real nice colors there! I'm all excited for hellebore season now, and of course that means I need to stay away from hellebore websites... easier said than done since I never planted out last years seedling batch and don't have too many new seedlings to look forward to this spring. Fortunately I did replant a bunch the year before, so I'm hoping they're amazing at least.

California Dreaming looks extremely cool. Those first clear yellows with the golden nectaries used to be weak growers but over the years they've been much improved. Actually some of my neglected seedlings are supposed to be a similar color with golden nectaries and probably a wash or picotee of a darker color, they're from the Neon strain out of Ashwood Nursery in the UK so should be good.

My showiest plants get a nice mulch of shredded leaves and aren't in too deep shade. Actually some are in full sun, but need a little watering when we go a couple weeks without rain. I wish I had better advice but I really don't.

GG- I still understand the basics of plant hybridization, I'm just going off your assessment of hellebore breeding:

"The seedlings could resemble the parent and very likely some will but they are also just as likely to emerge with a completely different flower color."

Modern hellebore production in the x hybridus group depends on the seedlings being true to type. Depending on how established the strain is determines how similar the product is, but none of these strains would be as successful as they are if they were all likely to come up a completely different color, and I don't think plants from these strains are a "toss up" as to color and form. Also coming "true" from seed describes a set list of strain qualities, not an identical plant. Obviously identical plants would only be from divisions or cuttings or some other cloning process.

Not to go off too much further, but I'm looking at pictures and what do you think of this color? Would you call it an 'antique rose' or 'muddy pink'

kabob - I LOVE Ashwood Nurseries! I didn't think you could buy anything from them in the USA?

Definitely, Antique Rose. Pretty.

I'm getting excited for Hellebore season too.

:) antique rose it is!

I don't know if Ashwood will send plants, they used to sell seed but I don't think they do anymore. I believe the person who gave me the seeds actually got the paperwork and brought them back on a trip that included a visit to Ashwood among other nurseries. Not a bad trip, eh?

I was just on an Australian hellebore website (Tasmanian select, used to be Elizabethtown hellebores). They sell seeds but the shipping is crazy... but I would love to get some seed from Mrs Betty Ranicar, the first double, a beautiful white found not far from the nursery and then grown on there. I think it would be a nice touch of history for my own garden.

I really wish I hadn’t looked at these pictures. None of my hellebores have ever looked as gorgeous as these. I guess I’ll be buying some more this spring...just loved the yellow ones!

dbarron, thanks :-) Was typing that late at night and off the cuff memory not as good as it used to be!! 'Penny's Pink' is correct.....Patty's is not (maybe I was thinking about papaver Patty's Plum" :-))

And hellebore season is closer than you think! My small collection of xhyrbidus have budded up and I need to get out and cut back the old, manky foliage. They should be blooming early next month.

Yippee! lol I just got an email that my local nursery is going to be able to pre-order gallon sizes of three Hellebores that I was looking for....

'California Dreaming'

'Brandywine''

And 'Dorothy's Dawn'.....

And I already ordered two dark plugs - Dark and Handsome and New York Night.

Can't wait! And I just realized I didn't order one double. [g]

prairie, 'Dorothy's Dawn' is one of the newer intersectional hybrids and like most others in this group, it is sterile. So no seeding around with this plant :-)

That's okay GG - I have a friend named Dorothy and I just had to have it. [g] I have a lot of seedlings from other plants. Good to know though. Are all intersectional hybrids sterile? How do you tell the difference, unless the seller tells you?

Most intersectional hybrids are sterile because they are hybrids of other hybrids that also tend to be sterile. Don't ask me how breeders manage to create them......it is beyond my horticultural pay grade!! With the exception of species plants (which tend to be not nearly as common or as widely grown) or the xhybridus types, it is pretty safe to assume that most hybrid hellebores will be sterile.

Makes sense.

prairiemoon nice selection! I wish I had a local nursery which would order those for me, and gallon size is excellent since usually the plugs online are almost as much as I like paying for gallons.

I love the crosses with the pink or white veins but they just don't color up as well once the plants get older. I think the nights here are too warm in the fall for the new leaves to color, and then when the nights get cool enough it's just too cold for them to grow anymore lol

I think your "Brandywine" will be a mixed colors selection so it might not be that dark purple, but it does sound like you have a few other dark ones on the way so no shortage there! I do like the dark or slate ones, but like others have said they don't show up well in the garden.

:)

That's pretty too, Katob!

Yes, I have a White House so the dark blooms do okay. And I plan on pairing them with other plants that might highlight them. I might be able to get them in a location with some late afternoon sun to backlight them. Worth a try.

Can you believe it's February already in a few days?

Backlight would be brilliant and they really glow then, but I still just like them anyway, showy or not.

We're supposed to get cold over the next few days so hopefully the hellebores which were already sprouting do ok. I'm glad we're getting a little winter to change things up but I'd rather not have had the mild weather beforehand luring everything out of dormancy.

We have snow on the ground and expecting to be going into a cold spell too. I'm thinking it's about 3-4 inches, not a lot but something.

I made my order. The Dorothy's Dawn only came in a 2 gallon size and they gave it to me for the same price as the gallon sizes. They all were $30 each. I thought that was a good price really. Considering some nurseries were offering a starter plug for almost $20. a piece. And this is one of the most reputable nurseries in the area that's been in business for as long as I can remember. So, I'm pretty happy about it.

Which nursery?

You lucky dog. Yes I think that's very reasonable for a special order, and like you say most of the plug sizes run $17 and up plus shipping. I hope you can get them early enough in the season to see them flower this spring!

Right now I'm into the waiting game to see if the flower stalks on the early hellebores make it through the cold we're seeing. So far so good since the forecast lows have been much lower than actual lows, but it's only the end of January and a few are already fairly advanced.

Katob - Actually, they already prepared me that I wouldn't see them until May. I'm going to have to call them back and see if they can move that up some.

It was minus 7 wind chill here this morning, and I'm so glad we got some snow just before it turned that cold. We're also expecting about a foot next week. I hope! I haven't noticed if there's been much growth on the Hellebores yet. Too late to check now.

Hi PM et al,

Look up :"Grape Galaxy" and if you like it and see it at a good price consider buying it. Mine has gotten very large and robust. It may not be the 'sexiest' dark hellebore around but it has an impact and bulks up fast (for a hellebore). I've been disappointed by some of the black ones- they tend to fade into background.

Hope everyone out there is well.

Marie

I did see photos of that variety, Marie - it looks like a distinctive color. Would you say it is a grape color?

It is darker than the standard 'supermarket 'red grapes'

It is dark purple.....is that what the photos show? No where near

black, which as I said it fine with me.

Here is the photo I've seen, Marie. Is that a fair representation?

That really is a lovely flower! And what I'd consider to be a mouth watering color :-) I'd buy that in a heartbeat if I saw it on a nursery table.

I really like the darker speckling inside the sepals. But it is subtle enough that I'd want to plant it where it could be very easily seen, That is an up close and personal kinda flower 😊

ShrubBucket - did you read my posts? I just paid $29.99 for a gallon size of Hellebore and following your link, you are offering a Hellebore in an 8" container for $59.00. That doesn't quite make sense. But thanks any way.

The seedling variation among Helleborus x hybridus on the market here continues to be such that strains presented at garden centers tend to look picked over once it has been much time since they were put out. As though when shopping them a body has to be there quite soon after they were tabled to get any of the good ones. Whereas material that is obviously clonal in origin - such as named intersectional hybrids that have appeared even at warehouse stores in later years - is uniform, making the last specimen left pretty much as good as any of the others that were on view previously.

Ouch, $59!

Marie, I love grape galaxy, I killed grape galaxy... One spring I ordered it and two others and then of course didn't get around to planting any of the small four inch pots until after they had dried out one too many times. One pink double survived, I forgot what the single green one was, but I've always regretted killing grape galaxy and I've never again found it for sale at a decent price.

I'm in a hellebore holding pattern. The snow is keeping them insulated is what I keep telling myself as the arctic cold creeps closer.

Katob, I hate when I do that. I've done it a whole lot less in recent years, but, life often gets in the way of gardening. What are you going to do. [g]

My garden is under 1.5ft of snow, which I'm happy about. Much too cold to be out enjoying the garden.

Prairie moon...may I ask which nursery you bought your hellebores from? So gorgeous! Thanks...

Janet I tried to message you but your message is not turned on.

I will try to figure out how to do that! When I used to follow gardenweb years ago had a user name daylilyrose and can’t figure out how to get that back either...

Janet, if you have trouble, feel free to just message me...

Oh golly, now I'm thinking about hellebores! NOT THIS YEAR - I have a planting spot in mind where they could be seen from the kitchen door, but I need to observe for a season and see how much sun there is.

I found a hellebore seedling in one of my perennial beds last year. It wasn't in a very good spot though, so I moved it do a different garden where it would have more room. I'm very curious to see what color it will be when it blooms.

Paul, How much sun do you try to give them? I think some of mine are in too much shade and some are in too much sun. [g] Just wondering what the perfect amount is.

Prairiemoon, I don't have any hellebores yet. The site I have in mind is on the north side of the house, but not under the eaves, so it's open to the sky. It's shaded to the east but may get afternoon sun -- I can't really tell in the weather we're having. Some things I read say that they need mostly sun, but others say mostly shade.

Prairie moon I can’t figure out how to message you either!

Janet - First, if you want to allow messages to you, you can change the settings on your account. When you are signed into Houzz, go to Your Houzz in the upper right hand corner. There will be a little pencil icon on the upper R side of the page. You click on that. List of actions under Account - - go to Advanced Settings. All the way toward the bottom of the page - Privacy settings - Who Can message me? And there is a drop down menu.

If you want to message me - click on my screen name on any of my comments. There should be a button to click on that says message?