The wind has been thrashing the leaves off the trees here and I now regret not getting to some of the pruning that I have been planning on doing. If the Norway Maple does well it can become very large and hard to maintain any lawn from what I have read. Is there a back alley behind your fence for access to plant larger trees? I would highly recommend planting Swiss Stone Pine as your screen if you could find larger trees. They grow about 6" a season for me, mine are just under 6' and about 15 years old. They have just started to produce flowers so I am hoping for fertilized cones. Needles are soft and the tree stays full.

this one is just across the border in Manitoba, at least 50 and maybe up to 100 years old. There are spruce in the background.

Thank you, wayne! I don't have a back alley, but the side yards are still wide enough for the caliper trees to come through at this point.... I thought of the Swiss Stone Pine too, but am wondering if those dreaded pine beetles will be a problem in my area? They are all over the mountains now.... sigh!

Do the Prairie Spendor Norway Maples grow that big in Edmonton, I wonder?

Yardvaark, thank you! The Pagoda Dogwoods that I saw at a local nursery are of the tree form, and they are absolutely gorgeous with the branching pattern... I know, the flowers are not as spectacular as the regular dogwoods. I used to live in Zone 5 too and the tree choices were amazing comparing to what I can do now...so if I could even grow this one in Zone 3b, I would be happy.... ha ha ha.... funny how our expectations are lowered so rapidly.....

I have a happy and healthy pagoda dogwood in zone 3. It is native to Manitoba which sees the worst winters in the Canadian prairies. It’s very hardy. Not sure why yours doesn’t work Wayne.

Prairie splendour will ultimately grow to 40ft. I saw some 25 to 30ft tall ones in Sherwood park a couple weeks ago. Beware frost cracking if it gets sun on the bark in winter. Mine took some major cracking for the first time this winter and two branches didn’t grow leaves this spring. It’s very hardy though. Gets through -40 winters.

Check our regal prince oak. Has been doing good in the city.

Red rocket maple is very hardy as well but beware frost cracking again. I had one and it was 1” caliper, growing quite slowly, the bark started opening up wounds and the sap was leaking everywhere this spring. It can take the cold but the bark can’t handle the winter sun. I am never going without wrap for a maple ever again. I think I’m going to actually paint their trunks white when young to prevent it or you can use those white plastic wraps.

Thank you so much, Plant Love!

May I ask how big your Pagoda Dogwood is please? I am really curious if it does get to be as wide and tall as 20-25 feet "as advertised" or whether it really is a much smaller tree in our climate?

As for the frost cracking issues with the maples, I do wonder if my yard would have that issue.... would it be the worst in a particular direction please, such as a west facing location?

Thank you again!

Mine is young. Been in the ground for two winters but they were two of the worst winters in my life for trees. Its small. I can send you a picture though. I has a nice red fall color. Leafs out really late though. Just before bur oak.

From what I can tell in pictures, it looks like it grows alot wider than tall. The branches grow at a 90 degree angle from the trunk when its grows bigger.

Plant Love, I would love to see a picture of your Pagoda Dogwood! Thank you so much!!!

Thank you so much, Plant Love! I really appreciate the photos! :-)

When I lived in MN, I had an Autumn Splendor Buckeye. They don't turn bright red like the torch one. I would say it was an improvement on a regular Ohio buckeye (with a bit more yellow and even a bit of orange). It got about 20' tall before we moved, and I only ever saw a couple of conkers on it. It is supposed to be sterile or something but I guess it wasn't perfect. Anyway, buckeye conkers are easy to pick up or mow over... they are not a big deal like chestnut or sweetgum.

You might just take some walks in the neighborhood and see what people have planted. Sometimes you will be surprised what you will find. I have relatives in Calgary, and for the longest time the only thing I thought you could grow there is poplar and spruce. Turns out you can grow more, but their limiting factor often is not the winter cold, but the chinook cold/warm cycles that start to thaw the trees, then freeze, repeat... and in the spring you have a bunch of desiccated trunks. Edmonton is further from the mountains, so I wouldn't think the effect is as bad, but check with folks in the area.

There's a botanic garden "15 minutes from Edmonton" where you can go look at tree plantings, see what has been doing well there.

https://botanicgarden.ualberta.ca/

corkball and embothrium, thank you!

corkball, Edmonton is actually a bit better than Calgary in terms of growing environments, because we do not have the chinooks that Calgary does. While these chinooks are so nice to people. they are terrible for trees, as they confuse the trees by making them think that it's spring already with the sudden rise in temperature, only to see that the temperature would then sharply drop again, and it's winter all over again! That was so difficult for plants and trees in Calgary. So I seem to see more mature and bigger trees in Edmonton than Calgary. Anyway, I may just try the Pagoda Dogwood here! We'll see.

embothrium, I love that botanical garden!!! One of these days, I should go there again, as I have not been going to places due to the pandemic. Even just by walking around the neighbourhood though, I am getting some good ideas on trees, so I can't wait to get to the botanical garden again! Thanks.

The pagoda dogwood should be extremely hardy for all across the prairies. The tree is native to Manitoba for pete sakes. It shouldn't have any problems. Its weird that people can have issues with it. Mine has seen -40s with no issues. Just late at leafing but its starting to finally take off this summer after not much growth last year.

On another note, I have a leonard messel and star magnolia that survived the winter perfectly. No dieback. What are the odds of that? It was a year where I've seen the hardiest plants have problems and my magnolia waited out the spring and leafed out super late but survived. My wife's grandma's rhododendrons are quickly becoming the biggest I've ever seen on the prairies and are growing six inches a summer after no growth for years with the dry summers. I'm so excited to see how large they will ultimately become. They don't mind winter even with no snow cover on their leaves. Its helsinki university btw.

Plant Love, thank you! I have decided to give the Pagoda Dogwood a go and see how it does in my backyard! Thank you for all of your great info.

As for star magnolia and rhodies... my goodness!!! Really? I had a rhodo in Calgary before - it survived a few winters and then it just finally gave up.... it survived for those few years but did not thrive, so it never bloomed. But Calgary is such a harsh climate for plants (due to the huge swings in temperatures during winter) so perhaps it will do better elsewhere around the Prairies... :-)

Hi everyone! Just a report back, now that winter is gone and I see how my trees are doing!

The Pagoda Dogwood has done well - it is leafing out very nicely and did not have any winter damage at all. I ended up planting a Prairie Splendour Maple and a Royal Red Maple too! The Prairie Splendour has leafed out nicely without dieback. The Royal Red is slowly leafing out too and it did not seem to have any dieback. I guess the last winter was not the harshest one that we have had so the long term results are yet to be seen!

Now, I am really wondering where I can find a Golden Shadow Dogwood anywhere around Edmonton? Also, should I be brave and try one of those Korean/Japanese hybrid maple trees? Hmm.... :-)

I've also had an eye out for a Golden Shadows Dogwood (but in southern Alberta)! Haven't seen one yet, but apparently Bylands grows them, so I wouldn't think they'd be too hard for most Alberta nurseries to order in

I tried a North Wind maple in Fort Macleod last year... Didn't make it through our winter unfortunately. Neither did a Susan magnolia I tried for the hell of it. Autumn Gold ginkgo and Taylor's sunburst lodgepole pine are both going strong though, so I'm at a 50% success rate for borderline trees planted last year!

Prairiegardener, THANK YOU! You have given me so excellent information - seems like we both like to push our zone boundary! LOL!

So sorry that your North Wind maple did not make it - one off of my list now! Ha! But what a good idea to try to get a local nursery to order a Golden Shadow Pagoda Dogwood for me, if they are willing! Thanks.

Hi wayne,

How is your Korean Maple in Saskatchewan zone 3?!?

How many years have you had it?

Do you get much winter bark dieback ?

I also live in Zone 3 in Saskatchewan and I really like to try to plant a Korean Maple.

May I ask where is a nursery that sells Korean maple in SK ?

Thanks

Ostrich,

Can you show pictures of both your Prairie Splendor and your Royal Red maples? Trying to figure out which color i would like best between the two (purple vs. red vs. other), and if either of them turn green at all during the year (would prefer them not to). Also, not sure which is deemed more cold hardy. I have a very windy, cold spot with tons of exposure that i'd like to plant a tree in (have sprinklers so it will stay moist). Thanks for any info/help. Anybody know if either tree can withstand clay better than the other? I usually dig a HUGE hole with a dozer and put good loam in, in any case, to improve growth and drainage, but just was curious, and can't find much objective data that's not just an ad description for a nursery trying to sell you anything, even if it won't grow in your area, LOL.

JB

Billings, MT (Zone 4b)

JB, I don't have a photo with me right now, but honestly, both trees are so similar that I could not tell them apart! The colour (dark maroon) stays true throughout the season. There is no "greening" of the foliage colour as the season goes on. Neither has not had any winter dieback since they were planted 2 years ago. I am in zone 3b/4a in Edmonton but I am in the middle of the city, so there may be some microclimate going on there..... I do have clay soil here and I know that the landscaper who planted them did not really amend the soil there. Both trees are thriving here! When I have a chance, I will show you some photos of the foliage! Good luck with your selection!

Awesome-always good to hear from someone who has real experience with something. Don’t know how many plants/trees i’ve killed over the years that were supposedly ”cold-hardy” per the nursery.😂😭

JB, that's a tough call considering your stated "very windy, cold spot with tons of exposure" ... but, I'm wondering if your zone 4 b might be enough of a buffer to enable success or not. I planted several 'Prairie Splendor' years ago and now down to just one remaining tree. Two had succumb to severe winter stem scald and another grew tooo lush due to proximity to the compost pile. The one remaining tree is planted in difficult concrete like clay, I had dug a big wide hole, but for several years, the tree ended up growing backwards and nearly died, top dressing with compost and a bit of fertilizer in early spring or late September had greatly kick started the tree back to health and vigor! Only problem is howling winter winds off the garage roof always kills the top of the tree, so I guess it won't manage to get much taller than about 20 ft, nice specimen just the same and now with a trunk about 6 inches across. I think I've heard 'Royal Red' is possibly the better and hardier of the two selections and intend to try one for myself in a very protected backyard location.

Thanks for the info - very helpful! i have the same problem with my roses that get too much compost, or westerly winter winds,, even with rose collars and heavy fabric covers. but i love to experiment. i have 2 peach trees and grapes too. have gotten 3 good peaches in 9 years haha, but they were tasty! Those were only in years without a May frost, and no cold Spring or cold early Summer!

J B - how do your grapes do?

Theyre 5 years old, so this is only the secomd harvest ( and almost all got destroyed by hail a month ago haha). the somerset seedless seemed small and not seedless last year but i dont know if gibberellic acid is needed or how it’s used. i probably just need to thin out the clusters more aggressively. The Einset seedless was very strawberry tasting like they say. the grapes are in a very protected sunny place so haven’t had much dieback but not much experience since theyre still so young. they dont bud until may 12 or so. einset ripe 8/27. thompson ~9/10 in Billings (Zone 4b -30°F). hope that helps!

I found 'Somerset' slow to establish and got peeved with it last year and just ripped the thing out by hand after what must have five years in ground! This year it was back and early in the season I really should have reduced it to only a few of the strongest of vines, though did so just recently, it sure can produce a mass tangle of unproductive small skinny vines!

Ok, so i’s not just me! 😂

JB, I've seen photos of nice productive 'Somerset' vines even this far north, mind you I don't know if they've been laid to the ground for winter or not.

JB, here are the photos! Now, which is which, can you tell!? Honestly, I cannot even remember which tree is what now!? LOL!!!

Very attractive maples - what color are they in the Fall?

Thanks, prairiemoon2! These guys actually don't change colour at all! The colour pretty much stays the same throughout fall before they fall off.... I wished that they would turn into a brilliant red or orange but they don't.... oh well! :-)

I like the first tree’s color maybe just a bit better, but yeah - they‘re really close. And i try to leave a tag on mine, as i forget their names too :D i have a spreadsheet with all the names and locations, but haven‘t updated in the last two years. been busy planting too many roses haha! 150+ total to date over 3 years.🤦🏽😂

Seen people in the past painted tree trunks w/whitewash to reflect the strong spring sun and help against frost-cracking. Keeping a wrap on, at least in winter and spring would do the same thing.

Beautiful yard, JB. What kind of roses did you make that hedge out of? I've wanted to make a hedge out of Morden Blush roses .... if I only had the room

Snowdrift by Easy Elegance. spaced them 2’ apart (32 total). just put them in this Summer (after a backhoe dug a 2’x2’x64’ trench, and i filled it with custom soil (33% compost, 20% “garden soil”, 53% potting soil (has medium gravel and perlite in it) from Rocky Mountain Compost. we have massively dense alkaline clay in Billings, so i get rid of it and dig a 18” wide x 18” deep hole for each rose typically and then custom mix soil and tumble it in a compost barrel. Anally-retentive/OCD I know, but it makes my flowers and i happy (and gets compliments from the neighbors). :) it was hard to find 32 of these roses, but they supposedly are a true zone 4 and deadhead themselves, so i bought most directly from EE (expensive i know- hopefully worth it.) We’ll see if they survive Winter! i planted them about 3-4” below the soil line and theyre ownroot. i typically cover my 1st year roses with 1.5oz weight AgFabric and use a 8” high rose collar with potting soil (no fertilizer) that first Winter. And lots of Root ’n Gro that first year, along with ”Liquid Karma”. but now i’m giving away my secrets haha.

Awesome. Looks like they have established well. Now the key is to avoid those all-to-frequent-lately severe early and late freezes.

I've got the same junk soil here, too. When I plant roses I dig a massive hole for them and put in 1/3 top soil, 1/3 potting soil and 1/3 native soil. Works well so far. Looks great. Keep us updated in the years to come.

My internet is screwed up, and it keeps posting then unposting my comments, and they aren’t showing up in the app, but then do via my browser, so i apologize for any duplicates or other screwiness here.

Thanks to ostrich, frozebudd, L Clark, prairie gardener, et al for all your comments and ideas! Most people in my neighborhood just look at me funny when i talk about plants/flowers/trees instead of children. But then they get curious how i grow things - until they hear it takes a lot of digging and a lot of time if they want a pretty yard that doesn’t have the same old landscaping as everyone else, lol. Nice to have a conversation tree (pun intended) with like-minded, learned people who get it! Thanks again!
JB

Anybody tried a velvet viking red Japanese maple from Monrovia? Supposed to be a true zone 4 found in a yard in Minnesota. It’s more of a tall and wide bush than a small tree, though.

Not me, but I did have success with my warranty replacement North Wind maple this year! Decided to give it another go after it died the first year I had it, and I'm glad I did, because it's beautiful. I'll give it another couple of winters before I call it a success though

JB, you made me laugh when you said that you didn't talk about children with your neighbours but your trees and plants.... that sounds just like ME! LOL!

I am so grateful that you brought to my attention this Velvet Vilking Red Japanese Maple! I used to have a dwarf laceleaf red Japanese Maple when I lived in Ohio and it was my favourite thing! Since moving up north, I have not been able to grown Japanese maple but now maybe this is my chance!? Ha ha ha.... please continue to enable me!!!

prairiegardener, now you have given me hope as well! I was sitting on the fence about getting a Northwind maple... mahybe I should really give it a try? I believe that the Korean maple maybe hardier, right?! But is the Northwind more beautiful???

Ostrich, before i knew better years ago, i bought a Crimson Queen japanese maple - gorgeous, but the 3rd year we got a real Montana winter with extended -30°F weather and no snowcover. “Bye Felicia” to my CQJM.😭 I learned my lesson. I am going to try and buy direct a VV this year and see how it does. I’ve told all our local nurseries, but everybody’s been hesistant to order them (sigh).

You go, JB!!! I think that Crimson Queen was exactly what I had when I was in Ohio!!! Sigh... where would you buy VV directly from please? I guess the direct order places would be different here in Canada though.... does anyone know a good direct order place in Canada for these trees/shrubs please? JB, please keep us posted! :-)

Well, i was going to buy it direct from Monrovia, but currently it says “not available in your zip code”. Maybe i need to drive to a different zip code and wait at the post office, hahaha! I may reach out to them later this Fall and see if there are other buying options.
I also have a contact at Bailey’s research nursery in St. Paul that might be able to look into accessing some directly wholesale, and then maybe sell some to all of us retail? (I saved up and bought $1800 worth of roses for my hedge from her direct this year, as they own the Easy Elegance / Snowdrift brand (I couldn’t find enough of that specific cultivar in Montana nurseries)). AND I bought them at twice the price of typical local retail (given the delivery charges). So she owes me, lol !! Will keep you posted.
If anybody else on this post finds a source for Velvet Viking japanese maples, let us all know! :D

I know I'm two years too late, but I didn't see any recommendations for catalpa ovata, "Chinese" catalpa, in this thread -- which is a shame. It flowers reliably in July, much later than most other trees, and the flowers are very fragrant. It's also compact and hardy -- I've had mine for over ten years now, and it hasn't had a problem surviving winter temperatures which have reached down to -44C.

How is the pagoda dog wood this year Ostrich? Such a wierd winter/spring. I am in Red Deer and currently on the hunt for one. I think I want a multi trunk over a single...but not having any luck finding them.

Also can't seem to find any globe caragana anywhere! they were filling the boxwood void for me, but no luck.

Dan, a good many years ago, I grew out some pagoda dogwood seeds and set them out at about 3 ft tall. Now, a few had outright winterkilled, others were scraggly growers and one ended up being rather ideal in all aspects including hardiness, oh I'm just west of Edmonton. That "perfect" plant, nearly I had done in when deciding I desired to move it another location, only saved it by layering a few branches that now are small plants. In 2021 I did see some nice multi branched specimens at my local greenhouse, all were very uniform in growth, so my guess they might have been cutting grown. I was tempted to purchase one, though knowing the issues I had with hardiness, I resisted buying, lovely things though they were!

Yes, I agree the globe caragana is a classy little shrubs that should be much more readily available!!

Totally different, but if anyone is looking for a very reliable cedar, go with 'Yellow Ribbon', I have five specimens that many now are very large and never once have I seen a dead branch, only a bit of browning the first winter or two. These can be pruned nice and tight or let go tall and wide, would make for an amazing hedge of whatever desired size! These I'd say would do good down to zone 2.

Dan N Briana, my Pagoda Dogwood has done very well, despite the harsh winter that we just had! It has had no winter dieback whatsoever. However, it is such a slow grower!!! I had it planted about 2-3 years ago and it has grown very little. That said, it has been very healthy!

I got this guy from Millcreek Nursery 3 years or so ago, and I love it! It is so sad that Millcreek will be closing after this month!!! Sigh.... I also saw some multi-trunk ones from Salisbury last year, but they were very young and terribly skinny.... it seems to be hard to find one of these around here!

All the best!

@davidpeaceriver__2b, I have never seen a catalpa ovata, "Chinese" catalpa here in a nursery before! Is it hard to find? Do you mind showing us a photo oif this tree please? Thank you!