Good luck Sey. I started some but decided to toss them when the temperature got too hot for transplants and they started to get out of control. I'm really glad you've got a plant going. When do you predict it will have mature fruit you can post here?

Have you seen anyone post a picture of a true Kumato from saved seed? I couldn't find on line posted, but it must be out there. Probably a complex hybrid though. Hope yours turns out sweet & dark brown. ... Antici...pation .... :-)
PC

Hi PC.
My kumato has pea size fruits. Probably they will ripe in month or so.
I don't remember the F2 fruits being posted here.
I will do a search and will let you know.

Sey

PC, I found this F2 fruit picture , grown and posted by " jeroldburrow" on July 17, 2010.
Looks even better than store bought. He did not comment on taste, as it seeded to be still on the vine.

I'm growing it. This plant is in a pot on the deck, I have another one growing in the garden. It appears to be quite vigorous...I think it has set more fruit than most of my other tomato plants. For scale, I would say the largest one is at least golfball size.

Thanks Donna,
Your Kumato is doing better than mine. The number of fruits per cluster is about the same.
As I said, I started my Kumato about one month later than the rest. Also i am growing it in a 6 gallon pot. I can't wait to see the tomatoes get ripe.

Sey

Thanks Sey! (and Donna, those are looking great!). I look forward to your honest opinions since so much I read about them is just regurgitated threads making the rounds year after year. Please share your pictures as these develop for those of us that are interested in knowing how your Kumato plants are doing. Jerold's picture looks yummy, but he seems not to be active online, at least.

Olmeca F2 (=Kumatoᵀᴹ)... Since Olmeca is the hybrid variety name and Kumato which is just a tradmark for the F1's, does it make more sense to call it Olmeca?

PC

Update:

The plant is about 5 ft tall, w/ two trusses, each with 8-10 buds/fruits . The early one has fruits that are smaller than cherry. It has forked at about 3ft . So it has 2 stems and I will keep it that way.

Sey

Mini Update:

So far 4 trusses, each with about 10 fruits or flowers. The largest one is marble ball size. Considering that it was started more than a month late, it is doing GURReat.

Renaming F2:
I am thinking to call it "Karamella". Since it is no longer an F1, does the seeds company have a copy right on it ?
I have a plan also to cross it with Kelloggs Breakfast (KB). That should be amusing fun project. I have to do some reading as how to do it
Karamella -XKB..or just KXKB .. that is the name. But it will be another year from now to see the results.

Sey

Looking good, Sey. I'm interested to see how it finally looks compared to the store varieties. And of course the most important part -- taste. Do you like the taste of the store-bought ones? The ones I tried weren't better (or worse) than other super-market tomatoes, which means not all that great. But I don't think you can judge any variety by what you get from a supermarket.

Caryl

P.S. You're up very early for PNW aren't you?

Hey Sey,

Thanks for the update last Friday I just noticed it now with carlytoo's comment. Carlytoo, I like the store bought one since they are sweet eating when they still have green shoulders. On average, definitely better than store bought for me. I don't like the Mexican ones as much as the ones from north of the border, there seems to be a difference. This is the only tomato I've actually bought in recent times more than once, since the supermarkets and Trader Joe's always have them and the price is doable...usually around $3.00 per pound, $3.50 at the worst.

"I am thinking to call it "Karamella". Since it is no longer an F1, does the seeds company have a copy right on it ?"

Sey, about the name, Kumato is a Trademark so you can call it the mark as long as you don't commercialize what you grow, as seeds, fruits or plants. The correct variety name is Olmeca F2 that you are growing (same idea as Brandy Boy F10, and Big Beef OP). Not trying to dissuade you from creating a personal variety, except what you get will not be stable so really there is nothing to name. It is no different from naming a plant "Joe". I name plants sometimes
which is why I mention this. I have a Rutgers plant now named Matt for a
dear friend, but it is for the plant, not for the variety. I don't
know many who name their plants, but I like to do it for special people
with mine. Last season I had one plant (Santa) named for my Mom, and
she'll get more plants in the future :-)

If you grow it a few generations and select each time, when you get a stable one, uncrossed, it should be called Olmeca OP, though you could name it anything you want if push came to shove and a few people might frown on that.

Olmeca is the variety marketed as Kumato (TM). By naming Olmeca F2 "Karamella" you wouldn't be helping keep the variety straight for others if you were to eventually have a seed you like, but there are people that jump the gun experimentally when making crosses like the one you want to do with KB. They make the cross and instantly give it a new name like "Kellomella Experimental" (or "Kellomeca", etc.) could be for example, if you made a cross between KB OP and Olmeca F1. The experimental is sort of a cop out to say you didn't do your work yet to stabilize it so really there is no new variety, but that others can experiment with you to make selections and that's what you call it when you give it to others (or just you yourself is you enjoy a name right away instead of a number or accurate designation, like KB X Olmeca F2 experimental which would be prim and proper).

Unless you have a seed that grows true, you don't have a variety. There are only two valid ways to get conventional new varieties that can be shared and grow true. Both depend on inbreeding, which requires generations of selection. For hybrids this selection is done on the parents; for OP the selection is done on the plant directly.

Hope this helps.

Anyway, did I mention how awesome your plant looks :-) Wish I weren't sitting this out but no Kumato started for fall here. I think it is better as a hot summer tomato. Thanks for letting us participate in your experiment :-)
PC

Kumato update,.

Picture showing fruits

They are growing fast.

Sey

Picked a few that were turning colour. They are pretty close to the originals. Tasted one today and it was really good. The back left one was the largest and most ripe. That's a quarter used for scale.

PC, very interesting!

Thanks for the informative post!

UPDATE:
My kumatoes are about the size sold in store, with dark green appearance. Maybe even getting darker (?)..

The plant has about 15 tomatoes so far and keeps flowering / setting 4-5 per truss. Other than forking just once, it is not growing lateral branches. Rather , the lateral branches stay tiny.

I will keep you posted when the fruits start getting brown.

Sey

A little update:

My experimental KUMATO is doing great . The early fruits are the size of what I took seeds from ( ~ 4 oz). The plant has close to 15 fruits from full size down to pea size.

INTERESTING FIND.

While in another site, Carolyn losted this link.

Kumato Story

It it very interesting. I just make a short quote for you:

"I
have even heard speculation from growers that are stabilizing it for
home gardeners that they think it might not be a Hybrid at all.Possibly
that Syngenta put out the hybrid bit as a ruse to keep gardeners from
growing and saving the seed. Protecting their investment."

Hmmmm

My own Kumato fruits look EXACTLY like the ones sold at store in terms of shape and size.

Soon I will make a texture and taste report on it.

KUMATO RESEARCH goes on here. hahaha

Sey

My KUTOMATO Update.

Sey

An Idea !!!

If my Kumato (F2) tasted good {to be determined| I will try to stabilize it and maybe do a SECRET thing to it ( Not to be announced !!) and call it "Kuto-mato"

And I will spread the seeds around like Johnny Apple. hehe

Sey

I saved a few Kumato seeds last winter from a package I bought in the store. This spring I grew out one plant. It had one branch only. It grew fruits indistinguishable from store-bought Kumatos in apopearance and taste. I call shenanigans on the misdirection that Kumatos are hybrids.

Yes, Lewis. The Kumato grows true.

I have already saved F3 seed for next year.

My plant ( Grown in a pot) just forked once. No sucker there. I Liked it is it is a compact plant

Here is a picture. The one in the front is KUMAT

Season's end report, on KUMATO, the brown tomato:

Mission accomplished. My F2 Kumato produced consistently true fruits in size, color, texture and taste, just like the one that I took the seed from.

I planted it in a 6gallon pot and it did well. The main branch forked just once and the branches are about 5ft tall . I like that compact feature.

The plant produced about 20 fruits in 4 trusses. The average fruit size being 3 to 4 oz. Not too bad for a small compact plant in a pot.

I have already saved seeds (F3) and will plant it next year.

END OF KUMATO ADVENTURE>

Sey

I went to the farmer market and saw some tomatoes that looked very much like Kumato tomatoes. It turned out to be Black Prince, but at $5/lb I declined to purchase.

Kumato is also similar to Japanese BT in size and color. The latter is slightly pear shaped. But JBT is tastier IMO.

Usually when I see something in farmers market that I like (for seed) , I just buy one. Even if a single tomato costs 2 bucks it is worth it for the seeds alone. I bought a Green Copia this past summer.

Sey

We grow them and we are certified organic. We have been growing them 4 years now and they produce wonderful tomatoes.

These are from last year 2021

I've been growing kumato in England for 15 years since an original bought in France, they are growing true to type every year, this tomato cannot be bettered in my opinion.