Oops sorry my intent was not to confuse or to incite "wonton lust" it was just pure ignorance. Mindy its good that you brought this up because I think I added the same frustration and confusion to the plant swap. Think I am going to move on to Mid Atlantic.just a square peg. Katy Mindy, Answering this one is like choosing which one of my three daughters is my favorite, which like every good parent I say is impossible. Then again if I had to chose right now as of this moment it is my oldest who is coming home next weekend for a non stop marathon in Excell instruction in the hopes that I will be able to combine records from junk drawers, sweat shirt pockets, ect. and put together a concise record and maintenance plan for the yard that extends beyond the present "Oh you mean the big bush in the front yard." Oops once again I digress here is my list of favorite shrubs as of November 6 at 10:00am. 1. Myrica pensylvanica I have fallen for the quiet elegance of this plant Zone (2) 3 to 6 suspect to 8 2. Ilex glabra compacta & shamrock I love how these shrubs work well in both full sun formal situations as well as shady woodland. Zone 4 to 9 3. Ilex koehne Wirt L Winn beautiful large leaf and great berries Zone 7 to 9 4. Ilex pendunculosa Zone 5 5. Ilex meserveae all blues??, and Nellie R Steven- Zone 6-9 6. Ilex Rock Garden Zone 6 - 9 7. Spirea pink flowering - what a color work horse Zone 4-7 (8) 8. Hydrangea macrophylia Altona great depth of color vivid blue/purple, good fall color, nice leaf, consistent bloomer. *** 9. Hydrangrea macrophylia Niedersachen great color and delicate petals. *** 10. Hydrangea Lilacina nice lacecap lavender petal blue center with added interest of great fall leaf color *** 11. Hydrangea quercifolia both Queen and Snowflake Zone 5-9 12. Vaccinium corymbosum Blue Ray Zone 3 to 7 (8) 13. Vaccinium angustifolium Zone 2 to 5 (6) 14. Clerodendrum trichotomum Zone 6 (7) to 9 15. Callicarpa japonica Luxurians just when I think all of the excitement has left the garden. Zone 5 to 8 16. Viburnum nudum Wintethur great fall color 17. Viburnum burkwoodii really formal shrub and the flower scent in spring is intoxicating Zone 4 to 8 18. Viburnum setigerum Aurantiacum wow the orange peach berries in the fall next to the burgundy leaves of Hydrangea Quercifolia. Zone 5 to 7 19. Chamaecyparis obtuse Nana Zone 4 to 8 20. azeala Polly Hills Yuka 0 to minus 10 degrees 21. Rhododendron Cunninghams White re-blooms in the fall - ? Check with your local nursery This is a great thread I have already added too many selections to my spring wish list. I am particularly lusting after the swamp azalea. Katy *** I grow more varieties of hydrangea macrophylia than I want to admit to either my DH or you and considered to the best of my ability what I thought was a special macrophylia that to date has been under used in New England.

Barb...both happy and sad....Happy he is moving forward with his life. Knowing he will go far as long as he stays focused on his studies, and learns to quit being so wasteful. Sad because he is moving on and we will be seeing very little of him in the next 4 years or so. We havent made any new life adventures yet. House needs some TLC. I suppose first we will get used to having a home with just us and the critters and go from there. Chell I used to be a dog and cat groomer. I loved it too. But my employer was a deedeedee. Never had the money to pay me each week and always "owed" me. And she never gave me my tips either.Then at the end of the year she reported more earnings for me than what I had really made.Fortunitly I kept records and proved my case and won, so make sure you don't let the same happen to you. I have kept my clippers, blades and accessories and still will do a neighbors dog or two once in awhile to keep my skills up.....but don't miss the hair stuck in places I did'nt know existed....lol. Love all the pictures the everyone post. Always enjoy seeing ya'lls babies. Regina

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?

Image by: Clare_CAMichelia AlbaWhich Shrubs Smell Good? -   Michelia Culture         The following guidelines on Michelia culture were provided by Fredrik Liljeblad in a post to the Fragrant Plants Forum in July 2003.   I wrote this article on Michelias earlier this year.  In it, I go into considerable detail about their culture. FYI: the cultural advice is based on my Coastal San Diego, CA, climate, so you may have to adapt accordingly. I am a great believer in keeping Michelias in large containers, because:   1. They can be moved about in the garden to find the ideal spot 2. Established Michelias resent being moved and suffer setbacks when they are moved 3. Water, soil, and feeding can be more easily controlled 4. If an unexpected frost is due, they can be moved temporarily into outbuildings or under overhanging eaves   My 12' M. alba is in a 20-gallon container and doing very well. If you're potting up, count on the plant spending about 5 years in the same container. To avoid root rot, make sure drainage is excellent--not just good, and mix a handful or two of activated aquarium charcoal into the potting mix to keep soil that the roots haven't yet reached from getting sour; drill extra drainage holes if necessary. If you live in an area with alkaline water (as I do), flush the mineral salts out of the container about every other month (see article). Putting about 2" of pea gravel into the bottom of the container helps drainage and also stabilizes the container in high winds (which Michelias dislike anyway).   My strongest advice is to (at least initially) grow most Michelias in containers for the reasons stated above. M. figo is an exception, but it still needs to be given proper culture and its hardiness limits (see Sunset Western Gardening Book) need to be respected if it's in the ground.   Here's the article:   Haunting Scents of Paradise-The Unforgettable Michelias By Fredrik Liljeblad   If I were exiled to a barren island and allowed to take only one fragrant plant with me, it would be my Michelia alba. With difficulty-perhaps even a tear or two-I'd say good-bye to my collection of gardenias, and I'd sigh as I took a parting sniff of my Chinese jasmine (Jasminum polyanthum), whose trusses of pinkish white flowers permeate every inch of my garden and house with their heady scent each February and March, but my precious Michelia alba, now a 12-foot tall tree, is the one fragrant plant I could never part from.   Michelias are a family of sub-tropical bushes or small trees related to magnolias that produce relatively small but powerfully fragrant flowers. The unique perfume, pungent and fruity, has been likened it to a range of fruits: bananas, pears, apples-even mangoes! The base for "the world's most expensive perfume," Joy, is the essential oil extracted from Michelia alba, commonly known as the "white jade magnolia" or "white champaca"-more on this confusing terminology later on.   My own first encounter with Michelia alba was during Chinese New Year in Taipei in the early 1980s. A Taiwanese friend and his family took me to the Lung Ching Temple in the oldest part of the city on New Year's Day. There we bought teardrop-shaped, waxy-looking ivory flowers with the most incredible perfume I'd ever smelled. Each had a small thread looped through the short stem for hanging on wire racks next to the altar. My friend explained that the scent was so wonderful, it would "rise up to Heaven and get the gods' attention" as we asked them for good fortune in the coming year.   Later, when I lived in Thailand, I'd get up at dawn for my morning walks and buy several bags of Michelia alba buds ("chom-pii" in Thai) from the flower garland sellers outside the Erawan Shrine in Bangkok. When I got back home, I'd float them in bowls so the scent permeated every room in the house. In Java, where M. alba is known as "cempaka putih," the flowers are ritually offered at temple ceremonies to mark holidays, births, or deaths.   After moving to San Diego about 10 years ago, I found myself missing the scent of michelia flowers. As a surrogate, I bought a related variety, M. figo (aka M. falcata), commonly called "banana shrub," on a visit to Tropicworld. As lovely as the fruity scent was while it floated through the house on the warm breezes of March or April, it couldn't replace the almost painfully intense and complex perfume of Michelia alba.   On my trips to an Asian supermarket in KearnyMesa, I would sigh over the $100-plus specimens of M. alba, the costliest of all michelias, on display in the nursery area. Finally, I ran across a specimen at Walter Andersen's. It was mixed in with a group of M. champaca (less expensive than M. Alba), and had been accidentally priced the same as those. When I pointed this out, they insisted on selling it to me as marked (this isn't the only reason Andersen's is my favorite nursery, but it didn't hurt). What a thrill! Today that same tree, now over 12 feet tall and bearing more than 300 flowers each year, grows in an outdoor seating area in my garden where I can enjoy the heady fragrance over morning coffee or during an after-dinner chat with friends.   There are quite a few members of the michelia family, but in American nurseries we commonly find only four, two somewhat hardy varieties: M. doltsopa and M. figo; and two rather tender ones, M. champaca, and M. alba.  All michelias have handsome foliage-sturdy, somewhat waxy, pointed leaves that vary from a light grass green to a medium green. In the hardier varieties, the leaves are held fairly stiffly in the manner of their magnolia "cousins." In the tender ones, the leaves are larger, resembling those of avocados in shape and growth habit, but have far more substance and a lighter, fresher color. They are also very fragrant when crushed, reminiscent of lemon verbena. The flowers of michelias vary slightly in color, and tend to be smallish, long and pointed. In form, they bear a slight resemblance to Magnolia stellata when open, but with a waxy, substantial texture.  M. doltsopa, which comes from the foothills of the Himalayas, becomes a huge tree in its native habitat. Even in California, it's been known to surpass 40 feet. We in San Diego have a specimen at the zoo, and there is also one at the Huntington. M. doltsopa's flowers are fairly large, but are probably the least fragrant of all the michelias. It is a beautiful tree nonetheless.   Michelia figo, the Banana Shrub, can grow to a 15 foot tree, but is usually below 8 feet. Of all the michelias, it has the handsomest branch structure and lends itself to "oriental" effects. The heaviest bloom tends to come in March-April, but some flowers appear throughout the warmer months. The 1-2-inch flowers start as fuzzy, tobacco brown buds, and are a pale banana yellow with knifeblade-thin maroon borders on the petal edges. The plant is appropriately named-the blooms are strongly redolent of banana with a slight apple overtone. There is a U.S. hybrid, M. figo 'Portwine,' whose slightly smaller flowers are entirely maroon.   Of the two rather tender michelias in U.S. commerce, M. champaca, and M. alba, M. champaca is slightly less tender and grows slightly taller than M. alba. It has saffron to pale daylily orange blossoms that are somewhat less fragrant than M. alba, but quite fragrant nonetheless.   As I've mentioned, M. alba is the most powerfully fragrant of all the michelias, with a scent that reverses the proportion of banana to apple found in M. figo, and adds an indefinable "tropical" note as well. It is a handsome tree, somewhat less "architectural" than M. figo, but making up for it in size, profusion of bloom, and length of bloom season. The approx. two-inch long flower buds need some warmth to mature and open, but in practical terms for coastal/coastal strip San Diego gardeners, this means a bloom season that lasts from late March through at least early November or sometimes January, with slightly less production during the May grey/June gloom. Buds, once formed, persist until ready to open, and bud drop is rare.   Despite covering a wide swathe of sub-tropical and tropical Asia, michelias are quite uniform-with the exception of cold tolerance-in their cultural requirements. Some, however, are more unyielding than others. The fact that michelias are related to magnolias is an indicator of their nature: these are surface-rooted, acid-loving, second-story plants that want warmth and a lot of light, but limited direct sun.   Michelia's light requirements are somewhat complex: as much as they like lots of light and warmth, full sun-even at the coast-dries out their leaves and turns them an unpleasant yellowish green. The ideal situation is direct morning sun followed by light dappled shade under high trees. This can translate into any one or a combination of these scenarios: light all-day shade; full sun until late morning with part shade the remainder of the day inland; full sun until early afternoon, then part-shade the rest of the day near the coast. Strong afternoon sun in summer-even at the coast, is not a good situation for michelias.   Michelias also dislike windy locations. Although my garden is near-coastal, it's not at the coast, so the daily prevailing ocean breeze begins about 2:00 p.m. Initially, it took some experimentation on my part to find the proper spot. Until I did, my M. alba was getting rather leathery, netted leaves from the combination of sun and wind. When I moved it under the high, overhanging branches of a White Chinese Mulberry, it perked up enormously. It now gets light all day but little direct sun, and the mulberry also helps baffle the daily ocean breezes-with additional help from my house and a large, vine-covered trellis.   Like magnolias and camellias, michelias have a shallow root system with lots of fine brittle roots. This means that michelias, except perhaps M. doltsopa, are quite amenable to container culture and, in fact, dislike root disturbance as there's some inevitable damage to the brittle roots. At least until you've found the perfect location, I favor keeping michelias in containers since it enables you to move them about the garden. The potting mix I personally like is leafmold, osmunda fiber (orchid mix is OK), perlite, azalea/camellia-type potting soil, composted pine needles, and horticultural coconut coir (coir poses far less danger from overwatering than water-retentive peat moss).   Mulch michelias with leafmold mixed with their own dropped leaves (michelias shed some leaves all year long, but especially in the spring when the new leaves emerge). In watering terms, you can't go wrong if you mimic camellia culture, keeping in mind that michelias' foliage is not as stiff and transpiration resistant. I personally water somewhat lavishly since the above mix drains so well, but if in doubt, root rot is a greater danger-especially during the winter months and the May grey/June gloom periods. On the other hand, all michelias, particularly M. alba and M. champaca, like even more humidity than camellias. Spray or mist the foliage in early morning, and several times a day during a Santa Ana.   Also, because our water here has so much mineral salts, I use drip irrigation for 12 hours once a month to leach out all the salts. Without leaching, you run the risk of some marginal leaf burn.   Unlike camellias, michelias are greedy feeders. I give mine a varied diet: the basis is usually Safer brand liquid plant food for Azaleas, Rhododendrons, and Camellias, but MiracleGro for acid-loving plants works almost as well if you leach. I start in the spring with Peter's 20-20-20. From May to October, I alternate acid-loving plant food with Superbloom to encourage flower production. Because our local water is so alkaline, I also give a dose of Safer's IronPlus 5% about four to six times a year, usually right after leaching. If the leaves start to look a yellowish green (they're never much darker than a light grass or apple green anyway), I may give a 1/2-strength foliar feeding of iron in between regular doses. I usually don't fertilize from late October/early November until the end of February, just in case we actually do approach a freeze.   You will notice that michelia buds usually form among the leaves rather than at the tips of the branches. Especially as they get ready to open, they become very brittle and snap off easily, so be careful when touching the tree. Unlike camellias, michelias seldom drop buds unless the plants are very stressed. If underfed, however, bud production will decrease considerably. Buds on M. champaca and M. alba will often just sit there waiting for warmer weather, so don't be alarmed. Michelias can hold on to their unopened buds for a long time before they open. Incidentally, if you're in a dry area, try to mist the air frequently during the hottest part of the day. Michelias like warmth, but they also like some humidity.   With the exception of M. figo, most michelias tend to produce very vertical growth. If you're buying a M. alba or M. champaca, try to choose one that displays at least some tendency to produce horizontal growth. Pruning is not the answer, but rigorous tip-pinching of the uppermost leaves will force side growth. One problem many michelia owners encounter is distinguishing the leaf buds from the flower buds in the early stages. There's no substitute for carefully observing your plant, but here are some things to watch for: flower buds maintain their bulletlike shape; leaf buds, past a certain point, develop pointy "tails" reminiscent of green beans, but with a slight twist to them. A bud at the very end of a branch tends to be a leaf bud, as most flower buds emerge from existing leaf axils.   Despite all the above, michelias are not difficult to grow here, they just require an understanding of their needs. Given that, they will reward you with that haunting scent for most of each year.   Some good local [i.e., San Diego, CA] sources for michelias are Walter Andersen's, Pacific Tree Farms, and Mission Hills Nursery.