a new heirloom bean to me
botany_babe
19 years ago
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carolyn137
19 years agobotany_babe
19 years agoRelated Discussions
Talk to me about beans- not green beans- just beanie-beans
Comments (14)"wait, wait...are you saying I can put six HUNDRED plants in a 10x10 plot???" Those yields are based upon a degree of soil conditioning that is very labor-intensive... and while I have read of such recommendations, I have yet to see photos, or hear first-hand observations, proving that they would work for most gardeners. All of the digging aside, in my area, I'd be flirting with disaster if I crowded my beans that closely. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it. Most bush beans - when healthy & mature - have a footprint of 1/2 - 1 sq. ft. or larger. 100 plants (1 per sq. ft.) should be a safe bet; I've successfully used 6" between plants w/ 2-foot spacing between rows, which is close to the same thing. You might be able to get away with 2-3 plants per sq. ft. for the more compact varieties. Crowding more closely than that may work in the warm dry climate of California; but in the cooler, wetter Northern climes, it could lead to severe disease problems. I'm not saying that it wouldn't work... just that I wouldn't put all my eggs in that one basket, unless/until small-scale trials proved it to be successful. In a post above, I had mentioned "seed efficiency". To put that in perspective, large kidney beans are somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-60 seeds per ounce. If planted at the recommended bio-intensive density of 600+ for a 10' X 10' plot, you would need between 10-16 ounces of seed to plant... so you would need to buy (or save from the previous season) a pound of seed. Assuming you harvest 24 pounds of dry seed (which is, keep in mind, the best case scenario), it would represent a return of between 24/1 & 38/1, depending upon seed size. Most gardeners would get much less than that, since the maximum is for experienced gardeners, on well amended soil. In contrast, my observations are that large-seeded bush beans, given the 6" plant/2' row spacing I mentioned above, are easily capable of a seed increase of between 50/1 - 100/1. Small-seeded types will tend to yield about the same weight/plant, but at an even higher ratio of increase, well over 100/1... so in terms of cost effectiveness (if purchasing seed) small is often better. Pole beans can do better still; the "Striped Cornfield" I grew this year (@45 seeds/oz.) produced a return of over 500/1! My results were obtained by mechanical tilling, with leaves & mulch turned under each season. Using these numbers, the same kidney beans - if grown in 5 rows in the same 10' X 10' plot - would be 100 plants. This would produce between 5 & 10 pounds of seed minimum... with only 2 ounces of seed required for planting, the average in a packet of beans. Also, at this spacing, the plants have sufficient air flow through the foliage to minimize the chances of disease during prolonged periods of rainfall. Having tested that theory in some very bad years recently (such as in 2008) I consider these yields to be realistically attainable, year after year. I don't doubt that my spacings could be improved upon; it is something that I often experiment with. Most likely, there is a happy medium somewhere between row spacing & high-density plantings which will produce the best yield, for a given area, with the littlest possible seed. That "happy medium" should take into account the expected annual variations in climate, since what works well one year, might not work the next. With soybeans, I have had some success with closely-spaced double rows, with standard row spacing between the pairs... so that may work for bush beans as well. Given the observations I have made on over 100 bean varieties over the years, I expect the optimal spacing will vary widely, depending upon variety, climate, and soil fertility. So there is really no "one correct answer" for bean spacing... just starting points for personal experimentation. Keep in mind, John Jeavons' bio-intensive recommendations mentioned above pertain to bush beans only. Pole beans are not suitable for wide bed planting, due to shading. However, you can have the best of both worlds using pole beans. Planted in a single row on the North side of the bed (where they would not shade shorter crops), they take up a relatively small footprint. A high-yielding pole variety could give you 3-4 pounds of dry seed from one row in that same 10' X 10' bed. You could use the majority of the bed(s) for other things, and still get a good crop of beans. My apologies for all of the long (and probably dry) posts, but as an amateur researcher, I just wanted to share some "bean science". Just wish this was on the Bean Forum....See Morenew: incredible heirlooms-feb. cupids heirlooms swap
Comments (53)Hi Patti! Kathy will give us each a partner. And you and your partner send seeds and swap to each other only. It is not like the tomato swap where you need to send your seeds to a host. Actually, this is how we usually do swaps here at IE, with partners. The tomato swap was an exception. It is really fun swapping with a partner! Hope this helps! Happy you joined! Christy...See MoreHAVE: Heirloom beans
Comments (3)Howdy, I'd be happy to try some of your beans. I'm interested in anything besides the Christmas Lima (I have tons of those already). Please take a look at my trade list and let me know. P.S. I'd be happy to trade you two packs of mine per pack of yours, since yours are commercial, and presumably larger packs....See MoreLearning about Heirloom Beans
Comments (3)I keep finding out about more beans, and want to try way too many. Probably can't save any seeds like that, but I can see how they grow. Might grow Fortex, and thinking about giving these a try. Non Tough Half Runner - simply a perfect classic "green bean", single plants grow huge, the only problem I have is that insect pests love the pods too Pink Tip Greasy - have tried a couple "greasy", very good, but they are short pods almost sort of like a snap pea, that didn't produce until late Summer. Maybe the "Lazy Greasy" are longer, bigger pods. Quentin Frazier Greasy - maybe this greasy also, or instead Swiss Landfrauen - sound interesting, light green (?) with purple stripes, are these much different from Rattlesnake? Anellio Giallo - never seen "shrimp beans" before far as I know, but these sound like a good yellow pole, supposed to have Romano flavour? Scalzo Italian - Romano-ish type from Adaptive Seeds Blauhilde- not sure how different these purple poles are, seems like there are a few heirloom sort of flat purples. Smeraldo Romano - long flat, not sure they are any different from the "Spanish Musica" I tried before which was very early and very flat Christmas Lima - grew Big Mama last year, overgrew all attempts of support. Ohio Pole Beans - supposedly what the Native Americans grew in the area, and can be used for snaps or shelled, think I'm gonna plant this too...See Moregardenlad
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