Please see the latest post on the rose vendor feedback page. Nate has responded to an email that they are not refunding any of the orders they are unable to ship. i am guessing customers will be forced to choose a different variety, a candle, or wait 2 years or so until their mother plants are larger and they work out their kinks. bait and switch. very upsetting. same thing happened to me with ”one love roses” and it took me 30 emails and 1 1/2 years to get my money back. i clearly purchased the roses for spring of 2022 with one love and spring off 2024 with garden roses llc. if they are unable to send out the product then they should refund. please leave this forum up as a warning to all about these scam businesses. very sad.

Because of the input I’ve received, I do not intend to delete this thread. Sorry, Kitty. Although at present I do not believe Garden Roses LLC is a safe company to deal with and I cannot recommend them to anyone, neither do I feel duty bound to campaign against them.

If I may, I would like to recommend a little story that helps me keep my equilibrium in cases like this. You can find the story in print, I believe, or you can find it easily online: “The Woodcutters Wisdom”, by Max Lucado.

What is RVF?

@pezhead439 it is on facebook. Search ”rose vendor feedback” and then you can request to join and view the posts. https://www.facebook.com/groups/383906040740972/permalink/460995973031978/?mibextid=W9rl1R

the post is a screenshot of an email from nate, posted about 3 hours ago.

Kitty, I have a The Prince ordered. Do I need to choose a different rose ?

I have only 1 rose ordered so I am going to hang in and see what happens

Anyone that is being told you can't have a refund please go to your banks and your credit cards, tell them you've been defrauded, haven't received the product that you paid. Also tell them you won't be receiving the product you were promised either. They will help you and you may need to be persistant. You don't have to settle for no refund and most of these companies/banks are equippped to help you if asked. I suggest you only ever pay via paypal in the future for your products.

I encourage anyone reading this to go to your credit card company or your bank and tell them you've been defrauded - that they aren't going to refund your money. You didn't receive the goods you purchased from them.

Seems to me that anyone who still thinks they are ever going to get their roses from GRLLC are sadly kidding themselves. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that nothing Nate does is legitimate or honest. Contact your CC company and get a chargeback while you still can.

In the future, pay with PayPal.

Based on the emails Garden Roses LLC sent out today, I have put a post out on Rose Geeks. I really wanted the best for Garden Roses LLC.....

Right, it's not anyone's job to tell other people what should be acceptable to them in a matter of broken trust.

You can get a chargeback even if they are out of funds, that wont stop your credit card company from helping you or your bank. I hope that people will now file for these things with the proper card companies and banks. You don't have to accept that you won't just get a refund.

--- leaving the link to this post for those seeking information on getting refunds --

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6438292/garden-roses-llc-information-thread-condensed#29024539

He literally mentioned in an update months ago that they had reserved funds for any cancelations. I could swear it was in an email. Struck me as an odd thing to mention. Never would cross my mind to touch money I haven’t earned yet. Such a red flag. This was sometime in late fall or early winter. I

Store credit for what lol? There is no merchandise! I’m getting a headache just imagining what these candles would smell like. Would you trust burning them in your home knowing who they came from? Someone with a large order can get a bunch of trash candles. some random rose or wait for an imaginary rose to show up someday? How is a candle an alternative?. Unreal. Do they know some people have allergies to candles and that they are TOXIC to indoor birds?

To be fair most businesses don’t have the reserves to handle everyone wanting a refund at once. Even established and reliable businesses are often leveraged using past income and loans to fuel future production.

That said, if a product cannot be delivered, the customer should get a refund, seeking any availble means. It is as simple as that.

And LOL on the ’Candles and T-shirts instead of Roses’ option. How many takers? And I guess since it’s an LLC, they won’t be held responsible if their candle overwhelms your poor indoor bird.

Only if the T shirts say

Ive been Scammed by

Garden Roses LLC

I've been asking about their plant tags but no one responds. Has anyone ever gotten plant tags? You don't have to propagate tags & the laser engraver is shown on their page. I would order 100 tags if it were legit. It's confounding they would put so much energy into creating the mirage of a business then not put in the final ingredient.

Kitty, please see the screenshot below where they said they will no longer be offering refunds

Elestrial,

Often businesses do not know they ”can’t go back on their policies… their guarantees…. ” That is often how it starts. What a shame to not honor his policy, a breach in PA law. Refer to his policy on his website…. I posted his policy to give refunds…..attached above….. He is required by law now to give refunds if customers request them.

Customer may choose to work with him by purchasing other products or waiting for delayed orders. as an alternative, too.

I see he had some wonderful ideas starting his farm.

Heart breaking to see a business not make it. I wish there was a way honestly to bless everyone and his business.

Submit email to your bank or CCcard Co. & they will pursue taking care if it now.

I was able to get a full refund but it does seem like I am in the minority group with that. A sad and strange situation all around. I hope those who have tried but not gotten a refund yet are able to succeed with a chargeback

I received an email from Tess last Wednesday regarding my order being cancelled and that i was being refunded. She said per Shopify, i have to allow 10 days for it to hit my account, which in my experience with refunds, shouldn’t take longer than 2 business days. I still haven’t received it and I’m pretty concerned with this new message they sent out. What an unfortunate fiasco!

My thinking is that they have literally run out of cash. In a business that money from purchases goes back in to the business. They had no idea that there would he a ”run on the bank ” so to speak and ran out of refund money pretty quickly. I still do not believe that this was an intentional scam or there would be no refunds . I think that they have no idea what they are doing and are now floundering in the mess. But, like I said, I have only 1 rose ordered but it would ge a different story if I was out 100’s like a lot of you.

I agree, Kristine. Given their history, I can fully understand why so many on this forum do believe this is an intentional scam. However, there are enough indications to me that they really were intending to run a business this time, but they jumped in headlong and seriously didn’t know how to run a nursery, either from a business or an agricultural standpoint. And they have run aground. It’s very sad and will damage their already ruined reputation. I would like to see them get on their feet, but they will need to first learn under someone else who knows the ropes. Hopefully, they will be able to do this. Trust will not be easy to regain, but if they are willing to be honest, humble, work hard and work under someone who knows how to run a nursery, it could be done.

Quite frankly people should be calling the credit card companies and banks for refunds based on the fact they’ve been defrauded and not received the goods they’ve paid for. They can’t stop the charge backs from happening and people do have a choice.

Whatever else happens with this people should use the tools they have to protect themselves.

The plant tags aren’t that hard to do — it would require some work for him to produce and make them.

or whoever owns a Cricut maker 3 – could simply make your own — a cricut joy would get job done as well — depends on if you want engraved or vinyl — cricut maker 3 engraves

But they weren't running a business.

Businesses sell things-- the only things they have sold are dreams.

This excuse that "all small businesses have it tough in the beginning"  are for places like family-run mini marts that are struggling to survive on profits.

There is zero reason that money should not have been in a trust account until product has been shipped. Obviously one or both of them should have had another job to pay their bills-- not using money that wasn't theirs yet. That's what makes this fraudulent, and not "a struggling small business" .

There have been mentions on this thread of Fisher misappropriating funds from the Lehigh Valley Rose Society (or was it the American Rose Society?) and being expelled from the group as a result. Are there any public-facing sources relating to this, or has it all been word of mouth? I'm just wondering where this info came from (sorry if I missed it somewhere in this thread).

If he did in fact misappropriate funds from a rose society, it would make it even harder for me to believe he had pure intentions when he set up his rose business, so that's why I ask.

I hear what you’re saying, Carla. It could hardly be called a business because it wasn’t grounded on reality and common sense business practices. But it does appear to me that their intention was to start a business, though they seemed to have little to no idea how to do so. It also appears there has been fraudulent activity and dishonesty on various fronts. There’s no excuse for that. However, I still do not believe the original intent was to set up a scam, even though it has degenerated into what is essentially a scam.

TheGableGarden, thank you for giving clear direction to everyone on this forum about how to recover funds lost to this unfortunate venture. You have repeated the directions thoroughly and often and completely absolved yourself of any responsibility in the matter.

@judijunebugarizonazn8

I feel that I've informed people enough about how to get money back from this particular issue and I hope that in the future that this level of money won't be absconded with so easily in the rose industry. I frequent small business, family owned operations, and the like in the United Kingdom. My particular interest in roses was founded on David Austin and will continue. I have no problem with supporting people starting out in business, what I can't absolve is people not being forthright with the customer base. I hope they get it together for the sake of the 3 children. (I have sympathy for any child in this situation). Outside that I have no sympathy for the adults who haven't owned the mess they made from the start of the problem and pretending everything was fine. Had they made just one different decision they would be in a much better position and that I hope they've at least learned from. Time will tell I suppose.

Speaking of scams, has anyone got their exclusive roses from Grace Rose Farm yet ? It’s been almost a year , promise after promise and the runs around from them and still no roses

Check the Grace thread. And I've not received my exclusive Ashley rose, but I haven't waited as long as you, though too long for me. Diane

It’s been nothing but excuse after excuse. I don’t think I will ever see those roses. At this point I just want my money back.

Good luck getting your money back! They’re not processing any and if you try to do a chargeback through your credit card they’re fighting to not allow it to process through. Total scammers!

Any news from Garden Roses LLT,

Did they ship any roses to anyone this sprong 2024 ever?

I see no updates on their facebook since April 11. He has no products for sale on their website, no roses, No alternatives soecifified to sell in their website, no candles, just tags & T-shirts.

i’d like to know the names of the 200 roses alternatives for sale in this June 2024-Nate says on his website he’d have 200 roses to sell in June.

No word/UPDATES from him in media for 3 weeks.

Many people on Rose Vendor Feedback are saying their chargebacks have been reversed. GRLLC has been arguing with credit companies that the orders are being sent, the CC companies are believing them, so the conditional credit the customers were issued is being taken back. Ugh.

Someone from Rose Geeks just posted this:

GRLLC Refunds

I am sharing this spreadsheet that was created as a result of a discussion we had in the GRLLC chat recently. The intention is to use this to track the status of GRLLC refunds so that as a community we have a clearer picture of how many people are still owed money.

I am only posting this on the main page so that people can find the link more easily if they need it (so they aren’t having to scroll back through the entire chat thread each time to find it). If you are not comfortable sharing this type of information, there is no pressure to do so.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--wxUMMCIKhyxhQV3hLMaXZO-XOPE3_SeeRi3L78vBQ/edit?usp=sharing

Kitty, I'd like to correct the record that when Grace Rose Farm delays or even CANCELS your rose they do not offer refunds unless your rose ordered in early 2023 is now delayed another year until 2025. In 2024 they will give you back your money after holding onto it for a year, gaining interest. Otherwise you have to fight for it over many months. They purposely delayed everyone's Fall 2023 arrival order to Spring 2024. I know someone waiting from January 2023 for $2,000 worth of roses & GRF refuses to refund, and ignoring them.

i chose Fall delivery which I had to fight for then they sent a month after frost. They canceled roses on me & only offered gift cards. The subsitute for Spring shown here could not be the canceled rose, I had to choose another - bait & switch. Multiple back & forth with CS they refuse to refund for their error.
Eventually got refund after going to someone who is no longer with company.

I see an update on Nate’s Facebook…

56 minutes ago……

He shows a video of roses growing in his green house, and a video of all of the roses growing on both sides. Growing our rose orders over spring-summer it appears. Wonder if those are the roses ”we ordered?”

I ordered The Prince & WS2000. Fall was his new delivery time. I will wait & see if he shiips them to me.,,

Blessings to all of us rose gardeners!

Are those his roses or somebody else's rose farm? Why would anyone trust this outfit? Diane

Many of those look like new cuttings

Why would a rose grower not have them in alphabetical order or at least in groups of variety?

Not to mention that looks like the first bloom on a Seedling, not a cutting of The  Fairy.  Wasn't he experimenting with breeding?

Looks sketch.

Diane,

UPDATE MAY 2023:

Rose Geek visited his farm , showing a you tube video of his green house & rose farm. His “new photos ,” of his green house, new roses being propagated in the green house this spring 2023, & farm are his REAL rental farm property. i recognize it and he is prpogating The Fairy. I have seen his “The Fairy,” in a few photos of his and videos &I watched all his videos and am now viewing his facebook.

He just sent an email to customers today explaining propogation he started in spring and that ”our orders will be ready summer for colder climates and fall for warmer climates.” . He also states to be selling: rose jam, cards, soaps, chocolates. Additionally he says 200 roses are available for Mothers Day , as replacements.

I’d ordered The Prince & WS2000 so still hopeful I may receive those roses in summer.

Excerpts from his email ….

BTW, Nate started a small business in 1/2 an acre. I see he had a small crop in one green house. I have seen other nurseries stsrt this small. He is in his first year.

Heirloom Roses own 25 acres last update on their website. They have been around forva few decades.

Grace Rose Farm owns 50 acres in her 3 years of selling tose bushes.

Since Nate has a sm starter farm, maybe he can recover from his intial crop failure., He has one green house & I watched the video of his starter cuttings. I hope they grow well!

The rose jam looks yummy! My daughter sent me rose tea! Yum! I would love to learn to vook w/ roses like I saw on a you tube video once. The lady put roses in rice, bread bread, and sll types of cooking entrees! Yum!

@KittyNYz6. The photos/video on GRLLC’s facebook page are all for show as GRLLC is fighting chargebacks. If you know anything about propagating roses, everything the OP has written in the attached screenshot is true. The cuttings are also too tall to be successful. Good luck getting your roses. I'm sure you will get another "crop failure" email in a few months time. And when you ask for a refund then, don't fall for their offer to refund you via PayPal Goods & Services (if you've paid by credit card). Scammers are going to continue to scam.

@KittyNYz6. Also, Rose Geek's youtube video is from November 2023, before the scam was exposed. Rose Geek no longer endorses them. She emailed GRLLC for a refund and never heard back. You would think that Nate & Tess would have shown Rose Geek some preference...

BTW Rosegal - (Susan Searles in that picture was one of his biggest cheerleaders when this all started so the fact she is now questioning him means that reality is starting to set in on some of the more vocal ones that were supporting him.) She now looks like the fool that I told her she was at the time.

@EnglishRoseBud, I hoped for the best and they have disappointed me. I am sorry that you feel its necessary to be so unkind towards me.

@The Rose Geek - I wasn't implying anything bad about you in that statement below - that was for the person listed in the picture. Sorry if wasn't clear, I will clarify that below and I will say I'm sorry if you thought I meant you. <3

This thread is very sad. I haven't ordered any plants from Garden Roses, but I feel for those who paid a lot of money and haven't gotten any plants yet. I wasn't aware of the owners' past frauds and struggles with mental illness until this thread. I hope that they are really trying to make things right and deliver what they promised. Of course, hope is one thing, and reality is quite another. It looks like there is real enthusiasm behind this project, but I fear that they bit off far more than they could chew. I don't just mean shipping orders; I mean the difficulties of rose propagation.

Pennsylvania is home to a major rose grower - Star Roses and Plants - formerly Conard-Pyle. But I think they only grow a few test plants in the Pennsylvania location anymore. Most or all of the real growing is done at faraway, sunnier locations. (I think there are good reasons for this.)

About the spotted lanternfly thing: I live in the infested quarantine zone - as do about 1/4 of the people in the United States. (Check this map.) It is possible for growers in these states to ship out plants legally - but they have to comply with permit laws in both their state, and any state that they ship to.

A bit of hope ... The lanternflies hit hard in this area about 5 years ago. In the fall of 2019(?), they were seemingly everywhere, and you could find their eggs on all kinds of hard surfaces. But their numbers seem to have dropped significantly since then. I saw only a few nymphs and a few adults last year.

I think the reduction is due to a combination of human efforts to trap and kill them, eliminating invasive tree of heaven that is their best host plant, plus the local wildlife adjusting to them and eating a few. Lanternflies are just one species of planthoppers - many of which are native to the USA - so it's likely that native wildlife can eat them in the future. There's a long list of quarantines present in the USA, and the spotted lanternfly is just one. So while people should certainly know about these bugs, they don't need to stay awake at night worrying over them. (OK, maybe farmers can stay awake worrying - but they were probably doing that anyway.)

@KittyNYz6

Kitty I am glad there are kind people in the world like you, but I have asked for a refund and have been ignored. I have not been offered chocolates, jam, candles or any other replacement for my money yet. As a matter of fact I have not heard back AT ALL

Got my chargeback finalized last week.

i had filed for it immediately after it became clear that there was going to be no roses, and im glad i did it then

Dianela,

I understand how you feel. I have asked about May/June deliver my roses or candles , chocolates, alternatives- I emailed twice in a 2 week period, finally received a response which vaguely said ”no promises dates….& no specific alternative products…..” I dont really yet know about if there will be real alternatives or what? This is not standard business. I sure hope they come through with something soon. Actually Actually, I think I’d like rose jam, a candle, chocolates and one rose, Ha Ha! Jam sounds yummy!